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Mob spawning needs to be more balanced on Minecraft

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    Auldrick commented

    I don't think "make it work like Java" is feasible, either as a goal or as a base from which to restart tuning. Java spawn mechanics are intimately dependent on its chunk management, which is very different from Bedrock's because Bedrock is designed to run on less powerful devices. I think we need to evolve and improve the mechanics we have now.

    I also don't think a global slider can fix the problem, unless you're willing to adjust its setting every time you switch between locales. The developers have already been tweaking the global spawn rates trying to fix this, and it hasn't worked very well. What's too many mobs for one person is too few for another person, and both have legitimate complaints. The underlying problem is that you need the right kinds of mobs in the right numbers AT THE RIGHT PLACES, and the current mechanics can't adjust to different places because, well, what makes one place different from another is mostly determined by how the player intends to use it.

    I believe the solution that would work for everybody is to give the player a measure of control over local spawn rates. One way to do this is with a set of new status effects mediated by a new block. There would be status effects to increase passive mobs, decrease passive mobs, increase hostile mobs, and decrease hostile mobs. The player would control where the block is placed and which effect it exhibits, while the strength of the effect would depend on the size and composition of a surrounding structure. If this sounds like a beacon or conduit, you understand exactly.

    Mojang would still have the ability to tune this mechanism through availability of the block, the size of the effect area, and the required size and composition of the structure. The player would then have the ability to customize mob spawning to fit his particular world and his intentions in different locations, though doing so will have a cost in terms of resources and experience.

    I realize that, because this approach involves design changes to the game, it goes well beyond the kind of tweaking the Bedrock team hopes can solve the problem, but I honestly believe they never will solve it without giving the player some degree of control. If design changes are off the table, maybe the team can think of another way to implement player-influenced local spawn rate controls.

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    Magefulrage commented

    I agree with this post, there is an issue with this. I've been caving for hours without seeing mobs before, even in places that aren't lit well. But I do hope that the team is careful about how effective farms become. Sure, I want to be able to build a mob farm and have it work, but if it's too effective it really breaks the game. If it's not effective enough, then it makes the game so "grindy" that it becomes far less of a casual, fun game to play. I agree with others that people have varying preferences on this point. It may be good to have some settings that can be adjusted for this.

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    You guys need to fix this fast. Like within a month. Bedrock edition is basically broken for about all kinds of farming. Only mob spawners spawn reasonable rates, but for instant slime.. you might as well take it out of the game all together this way.

     

    I mapped out my world with mcpe_viz, and found 15 slimes in an area of 4000x4000 blocks. That is rediculous. To get a single slime block, one would need to travel like 80k blocks in total, to get enough slime. And one would have to know exactly where the slimes are at, othetwise it would be more efficient to find needles in haystacks.

     

    About Mojangs remarks about the why. I feel this is a bit of crap, as current day 'low end devices' often have faster CPU's and more resources, than the devices had when Minecraft first came out. And that was the Java edition, and Java performs like a wet towel. So I feel performance is a lame excuse.

    However, if performance is the main reason, 2 remarks:

    1) make mobs despawn. Biggest issue with the mob cap is not as much the mobcap, but the not despawning of mobs. I found a cave below my base containing 5 mobs which had accumulated there, and since they don't despawn, this means you're not really getting any spawns anywhere else.

    2) IF performance is the real reason (I don't believe that, but say it is), then make the mob cap dependant on the slowest device in the game. So when starting the game, check which devices are used/connected, and then adjust the cap based upon the slowest device.

    Also there need to be more categories. Give each mob it's own caps. Slimes are a nice example, what good is having slime chuncks, if the mobs spawned around it are filling the cap easily.

     

    Then, another suggestion; instead of first selecting which mob to spawn, first make a selection of possible mobs that COULD spawn there, and THEN decide which one to spawn. So, again, slimes as example, they can spawn in light.

     

    However, first thing the game does, is select a mob to spawn. Then it checks the light. As you have a certain chance of a slime being selected as mob to spawn, this basically means that if you have a well lit area for slimes to spawn, you'll only get a fraction of the slimes spawning, as most of the spawns will be 'lost' on mobs that can't spawn in light.

     

    So suppose I made a flat world, all lighted up, infinitelly big. The mob cap is like 8. Then it would take a lot of time before I actually get 8 mobs, as most 'spawn moments' are wasted on mobs which can't spawn in light.

     

    Make it a setting with a slider, or settable in options.txt.

     

    However, whatever you do, do it FAST. Don't let this issue linger, as it basically breaks the game at the moment.

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    AlmightyKairo commented

    Ghasts don't spawn enough same with passive mobs like chicken, cows and pigs

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    SylvyrStryyk commented

    This is definitely a very agreeable thread. Instead of worrying about "fixing items being placed in the output of an anvil", make mobs spawn properly! Nothing is more important than spawning mobs! Reduce drowned mob spawns (or limit them to oceanic biomes only) so we can have other mobs spawn properly in their respective biomes. The drowned spawn too much and are everywhere during the day and night. Glad to have a new mob (and adding phantoms now, too?), but mob spawns and despawns seriously need to be worked on heavily. I've made so many variations of mob farms with nothing being produced because I'm finding them all in the rivers nearby. It's nice to see the pretty fishies. But they take up spawn spaces as well.

    Basically cant create a mob farm because spawn rate calculations are broken or skew HEAVILY toward the new mobs! It's bad enough shulkers don't respawn as it is, but other mobs not spawning properly on top of that issue as well? They're not all shulkers. I haven't seen ONE skeleton spawn when I play on hard difficulty. Only drowned. Guardians dont even spawn in my guardian farm. Everywhere I go all I see is drowned. Haven't even seen a phantom appear either and I've not slept for a week in game.

    Cant find a wolf or llamas for my achievements. The mob slider should be set for biomes, so that type spawns less in the area. Or for specific types of mobs. My named mobs despawn more frequently than unnamed ones in peaceful mode. So at least we know that mechanic DOES work. In the wrong fashion, but it works... it's just a broken game completely. They need to stop on new content and focus on fixing the old content to work properly.

    (Unrelated) the cross platform mechanic doesnt even work. My daughter invited me to play on her mcpe through my xbox1 and all I could do was basically be spectator (without the ability to go through blocks). I couldnt even use rockets and the elytra in creative mode with operator mode applied to me. But her area filled with hostiles faster than I could blink. We just stood there and watched them pop up everywhere around us.

    From what I've gathered, despawn is supposed to happen around 64 blocks from the player. And spawn 24 blocks away from the player. This should be changed to be equivalent to java spawn distances, or at the very least improved to make spawns more reliable and frequent. The reason they say its about performance isn't the platform's capabilities, but their server's ability to provide stable performance to everyone's game. Yes, you play on your platform, but you cannot play without internet or you won't be able to play at all. The game is constantly saving every minute or less (making it almost impossible to play without some kind of hiccup happening every time it saves). They need to update/upgrade their servers, expand their server towers, and overall, improve their systems to provide us with java capabilities. Especially sweeping edge! Why hasn't that been brought over to other platforms outside of java edition? I mean, if they're modeling the game on java with reduced tweaks, they could've added that in as a motivation for people to play bedrock.

    I've quit bedrock because how broken it is and still play xboxone edition because at least THAT one's mechanics still work properly! I'll play bedrock more frequently when they get this fixed

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    I’d like to see java logic for spawning and despawning copied over to bedrock. If device power is an issue or for those that think java spawning is too much, give the slider option. This is by far my biggest gripe for Minecraft since the btu.

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    OutOfLock commented

    My biggest gripe with the spawning mechanics is the global mob cap implementation. Some sources claim that the global cap is set to 200 and every naturally spawned mob inside ticking areas counts towards this gap. If the information I found on the internet is correct and I understand the situation properly, I see two big flaws with having mob cap as a constant number:

    1. Players get punished for having high simulation distance in their worlds
      Bigger simulation distance -> more active chunks -> Mob cap gets occupied quicker. If the slider was provided to make players with more powerful systems happy, why then it works the opposite way and brings inferior experience in some regards? If a player has simulation distance set to 12, that means there are ~144 active chunks around the player (this calculation could be slightly off). So every chunk can only contain ~1.38 naturally spawned mob, passive or hostile, cave or surface, doesn't even matter. And that's around a single player only which leads to the next issue:

    2. Multiplayer games can destroy monster spawn rates
      Now this is where things go very wrong. For each player the amount of mobs per chunk gets divided, assuming they are not within each other's simulation distance and this is all without even accounting for possible manually set ticking areas in a world.

    These points would explain why after moving my world to a dedicated server mob spawning rates increased dramatically since a) simulation distance is set to 8 on the server instead of 12 and b) there is no extra AFK player serving as a host.

    What I'm trying to say with all this is that in such circumstances, having global mob cap as a constant number is a terrible idea. If there is no hard technical limitation, an easy fix would be a variable global mob cap depending on the amount of active chunks (ticking areas) in a world. How many mobs per chunk would be for developers to decide but hell, even a single mob per chunk could make spawn rates much better in multiplayer worlds.

    But then you might say more mobs - more lag, it's a cross-platform game after all. Well, I think it depends on a host. You can always reduce simulation distance or just move world host to a beefier device. And if non-naturally spawned mob count isn't an issue then naturally spawned mobs shouldn't be too.

    Lastly, I personally don't care much about if the spawning/despawning mechanics are in line with Java Edition, maybe that's not the path that developers decided to take. But at least mob spawning should be CONSISTENT. Because right now every time an additional player joins my server I realize mob spawning rates are going to be worse and that's really annoying.

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    Jonah Miller commented

    This does seem to be a really big issue. Before I've traversed through countless branches of caves and only found a few mobs. Because of this, caves don't feel dangerous.

    Caves aren't the only problem: When I'm outside at night, sometimes I have trouble even finding certain mobs! Once I went a whole night without finding a single creeper. This doesn't seem normal, but that may just be because I'm used to Java.

    Another issue is how ineffective my mob farms have been. The first one may of been due to poor design, but I only got three mobs from it after hours of playtime. My new one I haven't gotten any from, and I don't know why this is the case; I've tried to follow mob spawning rules as well as possible; I should've at least gotten something by this point.

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    JoebAKL commented

    Can we add Creepers able to spawn under trap doors?

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    Gypsy327 commented

    From the beginning of update aquatic I've been trying to find slime in my survival world.  I've camped out in several swamps at night during full moons, and I have cleared out several spawn chunks properly.  With all of this work, I still have yet to see a single slime in my world.  I've also tried looking for them in a creative world and they do not spawn naturally.  It seems that by adding Drowned they have taken up the space for a lot of other mobs.  This really should be fixed.  I've also noticed that fish aren't really spawning in my survival world either.

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    Hexenjager commented

    Devs need to make fixing spawining the top priority.  Right now the game is seriously broken for anything other than creative play and perhaps super-casual easy play.  It has been over 430 days since this bug was reported!
     
    Yeah, there are improvements, particular annoyances to address, and neat ideas, but right now the game is BROKEN.  Just get it working at least to an approximation of the Java version (which is far from perfect).

    Devs really should know this better than we do, but seems like what needs to be done now (needed to be done over a year ago actually):
    - Add console commands to change all the key parameters: mob cap, despawn distance, spawn distance, ect.  Those should have been there from day one... These parameters need testing and tweaking, not just hard-coding to arbitrary numbers.
    - Despawn properly.  Might requite fixing the "has interacted with player" flag.  I assume there is also a timer where untamed/unnamed mobs will eventually despawn regardless... If not, add one, and a console command to set the timeout value of course.
    - Realize the spawning logic is flipped from Java and adjust the spawn rates for mobs with easy to satisfy conditions (eg. Drowned) down and rates for hard to satisfy conditions (eg Slime) way up. 

    Overall, Minecraft in survival on Normal or Hard should be a bit stressful.  Dangerous mobs should seemingly lurk around every other (unlit) corner.  At the moment, Bedrock isn't actually Minecraft, at least for survival.  Going for well over a year with a known game breaking (fundamentally changing) bug is simply unacceptable folks.

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    Zent Redline commented

    Yap,minecraft bedrock edition need hostile mob in option to set ad hostile mob or not

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    On the 8th May in 2017 I reported the bug https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MCPE-21856 on the Bugtracker. It's been an issue for all players for now 1 year and 5 months. As professional software developer with 20 years of experience I can not think of a good reason why this has not been fixed.It completely kills any non creative mode gameplay for many many players. 360 votes here, 238 votes on the Minecraft Bugtracker. If you imagine, that only 1% or 10% of the players that suffer from this report or take any action, you are easily at 10k players that do not enjoy the game as it should be.

    There has not been any statement from Mojang about this issue or why it is so hard to fix. Mojang has it's priorities completely messed up if aquatics update is released before this issue has been fixed. Fixing this issue can't be harder than implementing the special mechanics for the aquatics update. It's probably not the developers, but the management who prevents this issue from being fixed.

    New content is important to stay relevant, especially after the Minecraft hype is almost over by now. But the core gameplay has serious issues, not only for realms that people pay monthly for, but also for almost every console player out there.

    If computing power of differnt platforms was the issue, I would understand if there would be less mobs on the Switch or an X-Box 360 (does Bedrock run on that one at all?). But I don't understand why there are not plenty of mobs on: The Realms, my laptop, my beefy gaming PC or the relatively beefy X-Box One. There is no excure other than incompetence if there is no enjoyable experience on these platforms. The original Minecraft even runs on Java, which is not even as fast as a C++ implementation like Bedrock could be. And the Java edition ran Minecraft on more than 10 year old Hardware just fine enough to addict many many players and spwan a huge community. How come, that it's not possible today?

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    mrPuNcH18 commented

    I completely agree with jay, but I also believe four legged mobs need better walking and running animations. The clearest example is the cow's animations. 

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    This idea is spot on and being able to add adjustments to this issue would make this game more enjoyable for the players. All my friends are picky about this issue so if this idea was available I would think it could resolve some issues. 

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    Slimes, slimes, slimes, slimes. Fix this please. 

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    YodaVT39 commented

    I would just like to add one more commenter's weight to the ideas put down in this section.  I understand the reasoning behind limiting the spawn rate for less powerful machines, phones, etc.  This however, breaks the experience for people who are playing on moderately decent machines.  Any solution that can give us an option to raise the mob spawn rate so that the game is even slightly meaningful would be much appreciated.  I understand that not everyone can be happy in this instance, but the slider mentioned as an option would be a nice compromise.  It is just not particularly practical to have to find every single cave within the necessary number of blocks to light up.  

    Please fix this.

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    I think you guys really need to take a page from other games and make certain mobs spawn during "events."

    First off, when it rains, that should cause skeletons to spawn as strays. Alternatively, the rain could draw slimes and silverfish to the surface.

    Second, the new Illigers shouldn't be allowed to spawn every day. There should specifically be days where the player gets a raid notification and suddenly they begin spawning, perhaps moreso in the range of a real village. 

    Finally, and perhaps this is a bit too weird of an idea so bare with me, I believe some kind of "ender invasion" event would be neat. Greatly increase Enderman spawnrates, make Endermites spawn regularly in the world, and maybe summon some kind of "ender pillar" structure in a random place that the player hasn't been building in. Make it easy to tear down (so it isn't stuck there for low-level players), and also make the blocks good for something like support beams in houses.

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    Planefam commented

    Not just that, But when I play bedrock survival, I experience a lot of trouble trying to find animals in the overworld. They aren't spawning enough as much as they need to be!

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    Insane96MCP commented

    It's been more than a year that the spawn is broken, there are hard times finding endermen for ender pearls, or even get some experience by fighting mobs since there are almost none around the world.

    > Mobs should not spawn if they are beyond a certain distance vertically from the player (The current behaviour effectively breaks traditional mob spawning platforms built in the sky, or in slime chunks)

    Plus yeah, I hate this thing. Removes all the mob grinders part from the game.

    Beta 1.9 still fixes nothing. Please Microsoft / Mojang c:

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    Mob spawning in bedrock should be like the Java edition but a bit lighter so it doesn't make too much lag on mobile devices. The following hostile mobs should have better mobile spawning :
    -Creeper
    -Iron Golem
    -Withernsea Skeleton
    The passive mobs should spawn as Java edition.

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    I totally agree

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    I spent all day riding a mega farm and this spawn of monsters looks awful, literally I wasted my time creating it would have to leave similar to Java Edition. The way it is, it's very sad to play, I lose all my mood. And look what I'm playing on hard and it's horrible like that.

     

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    StarrshipCS commented

    I'd forgotten about this forum, but I'm guessing this is not actually monitored (or at least no one at Microsoft or Mojang Bedrock is willing to reply on it) because I asked 4 months ago if it is monitored and have not seen any indicator that it is monitored since...

    Regardless, this is not rocket science.  As WeirdConstructor said, the architecture for Bedrock should actually be more capable and efficient than the original architecture for Java, and I'd echo/add to the sentiment that there is really no excuse for not being able to adapt the Java spawning rules to Bedrock.  Once the core of the Java rules are mirrored as a base to work from, they'd just need to scale the scope of processing to the lowest common denominator of a device connected to a given world at a given time (most likely by limiting the active chunk radius, but could also include tasks such as bulk despawning when lesser devices connect to a world).

    There probably needs to be something on the server-side to coordinate that, and further it will require (wait for it) TESTING to profile how various devices perform and how processing should be scaled to facilitate the most positive play experience on each device possible; that way, the server can determine at what scale the world should be working based on the devices connected to it and then broadcast that scale configuration to all connected devices (along with any specifics regarding other scaling actions that may not be able to be locally calculated uniformly across various devices).  This information should also be coded into the client so that the same scaling rules can be applied for isolated local instances, and to keep the server-side job as light as possible.

    It doesn't seem testing is a forte for Mojang Bedrock and a lot of the suggestions include user-set configurations (such as chunk sliders), and those two facts (among many, many others) make me VERY concerned that Mojang Bedrock doesn't have their heart in a real solution here.  Most users aren't developers who care about talking about this stuff and don't want to have to tweak the performance on their individual devices because the company couldn't be bothered to take the time to figure out how best to scale for them.

    I've played games in Alpha testing that function better than this, let alone Beta testing, and I really wish that Mojang Bedrock would end this experimentation on our dime and just get the job done already.

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    mizzy6 commented

    I agree. In order to address this issue, can you add some kind of debug mode that allows us to provide better information to resolve this issue?

    Debug mode allows us to share with you information that can be used to improve mob spawning experience and find bugs in your algorithm.

    Mob spawning is very low, I cannot find a single creeper in an area of 200x200 blocks. I thinks that my underground caves are full of mobs or drowned but I cannot figure how to fix this. 

    I think that the issue isn't "how to improve mob spawning", but "how to fix this annoying bug that prevents mob spawning". Mojang has to understand that mob spawning is "simply" broken and it doesn't work.

    I hope hearing from Mojang or Microsoft soon.

    Regards.

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    I saw some comments and Drowneds annoy me too. Oh, on PE is also a problem. And, when you put down some water, there will start a fish invasion! So we need spawning settings separating passive, hostile and neutral mobs... 

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    Cool1004 commented

    Minecraft Bad Rock Slime Generation Rate, please.

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    Michael Wang commented

    Also please allow mobs to spawn above y128, i dont know why this hasnt been fixed yet 

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    MinerB4 commented

    maybe a command?

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    MinerB4 commented

    also you should post this in Bedrock Betas not here...