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651

The world generation and Height Limit

under review

71 Comments

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  • 2
    domskiyo commented
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    I think there should be more sky and ground, plus new biomes in those areas like AppleProGamer74 commented.

  • 6
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    While I certainly wouldn't object to the natural terrain making better use of the current available 256 block limit, it doesn't really address any of the issues faced by those who would like a higher world height.

     

    When being truly honest about the situation if the developers where to consider raising the world height as, then simply raising the world to 512 blocks would be a very short lived band-aid on the issue. In terms of the scale needed to create truly immersive environments from bedrock to sky limit, 100's of blocks just isn't enough, the order of magnitude does need to be assessed and for this new thinking is needed.

    Also don't get me wrong it's not that a 512 height would be worthless, but considering the technical challenges that need to be over come with taller world and the potential impact it will have on performance, I would rather the job was done properly.

    Discussions as to what extra height space would be used for, I'd like to quote "If you build it, they will come." Mojang/microsofts job here is mostly to provide the canvas on which others can paint. Firstly create a game engine which can handle the height even if it only for now makes use of a really limited amount of the available build space. The opportunities it will create will be reward enough to get the ball rolling.

  • 9
    Cory Smart commented
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    The mountains in the game are honestly a joke right now. I build cities and suburbs and the average house (and I build compactly) is half the height of the surrounding “mountains.” My skyscrapers are twice the height of the surrounding mountains. I’ve also always wanted to build mountain towns but there isn’t enough area within the mountains to build. Mountains have tall peaks with wide, sprawling valleys in between them where people have settled and cities and sprouted. That’s impossible to replicate in the game with the current mountain structures we have.

  • 3
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    I personally love this idea, but I think the drawbacks are on the technological side of the game. Ever since Microsoft has taken control of Mojang, their focus has been to make the game as accessible and connected as possible as seen with both the heavy optimizations and the cross-platform capabilities of Minecraft: Bedrock Edition. Doubling the height limit would increase world sizes by orders of magnitude, changing a 65536 block chunk to a 131072 block chunk, every chunk, for the entire world. This would probably take a lot of changes to fix how the world generate, save, and may not be viable for weaker systems like phones. I really really love this idea but I think that it's going to take a lot of convincing, and a lot of pros, to get the devs on it.

  • 2
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    The biomes o plenty alps biome prove that this is possible. They are amazing.

  • 3
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    I would like the block limit to be something ridiculous, like 4096. Insane mountains and deep deep caves.

  • 8
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    Having cubic chunks would work well, making the world not load 100+ blocks of air per chunk. If cubic chunks were implemented, the world would only need to load 4,096 (16^3) blocks per chunk, rather than 65,536 (16^4) blocks.  If the goal of the build limit is to stop the game from loading potentially millions of blocks per chunk, and cubic chunks are added, then I don't see why not to get rid of the build limit. The world border should go upwards too, effectively encasing the world in an enormous cube. World generation could stay the same. The Nether wouldn't need a ceiling, as floating islands going up to the faraway world border would work. A change like this would revolutionize large-scale building and chunk loading. 

  • 4
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    It also would be better to go from really wide worlds to really tall worlds. The world size is infinite one way and should also be the other way.

  • 2
    LordFrodolon commented
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    A problem which appears when using the "cubic chunks" approach is lighting and crop growth issues:

    There is no easy to compute way of checking for sky light – the solution open cubic chunks provides is pretty memory intensive. (more info on that)

  • 4
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    At some level it bothers me that the lighting issue seems to be such a problem for this idea. It is certainly not an unsolvable problem, reducing memory consumption for lighting data is a matter of compressing opacity data, essentially because all you are doing is searching for the next opaque block, smart data structures can compress 1000's of chunks worth of opacity into a few bits of data simply by adding a little meta data to the lighting info and creating clusters of chunks.

    Using a single byte of meta data, you could determine whether either the entire chunk, 4 chunks, 16, and so on to 16,384 chunks of data are transparent. Quickly identifying the next opaque block millions of blocks away really doesn't require the engine to search every block.

    Honestly the world doesn't need to be millions of blocks tall, but within this methodology alone, you would be able to find the next opaque block to any location in 8 lookups to a world 262,144 blocks tall. And arguably the way the world loads chunks 256 blocks tall at the moment, the memory required for solving light would be reduced.

  • 3
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    I'm very surprised that this has not gotten more traction. I am a map builder and the potential has been capped, 256 is simply not enough for most skyscrapers when even scaled way down. This will also allow for deeper caves and such.

  • 3
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    Raise the height limit so my buildings stop getting cut off at the top >:(

  • 1
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    Make it 512

  • 1
    Ip Ivan commented
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    Vouch for this idea, hope it gets into a new Anvil format or some sort of similar soon.

  • 2
    Oscar Wu commented
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    Make it so the water level is y=0, 256 blocks down, and 256 blocks up

  • 2
    rcyre421 commented
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    I agree cubic chunks should be in the game. However I don't think mountains need to be any taller. I think we need to be thinking more about the underground And what it means to not have bedrock. So having more interconnected caves and new and unique biomes deep below the surface

  • 3
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    The bottom line is, we need a higher build limit. I think 512 is perfect with some much needed changes:

    - Sea level is now Y 0, upper build limit remains at 256 and bedrock is now Y-256. This is more logical, especially when using Y levels as a form of altitude/depth.
    - Oceans are MUCH deeper. Current oceans in minecraft are literal puddles averaging about 20 blocks deep. New oceans should make use of this new space and stretch to barely above bedrock at the deepest parts.
    - New content to fill the much more expansive underground *cough* cave update *cough*
    - Taller mountains making use of the new vertical space. This will go perfectly with "snowier snow" and mountains actually being mountain shaped.

  • 4
    AnonymousDud3 commented
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    I completely agree with this! The fact that the devs haven't fully utilized the terrain generation height we have access to isn't even being used to it's maximum potential making it pointless to even have a 256 block height limit in the first place!

    There are even mods like RTG (Realistic terrain generation) that utilize minecraft's height limit to make amazing vistas that are just astounding to look at (even WITHOUT shaders). Since we'll be getting better mountains in 1.17 I would like to propose that Mojang take full advantage of the resources that they never even bothered to use in the first place!

  • 5
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    An increased height limit is way overdue, 256 blocks is just far too small. I think the idea of adding negative Y would be awesome, perhaps the limit could be increased to ±512, or, even better, ±1024. ±2048 would probably be too much. 

    A cubic chunk implementation would be a great way to get around the 65536 block chunk size. The new chunks don't even have to be cubic, they could just be 256 block tall chunks stacked on top of each other, but cubic would make more sense and reduce the amount of blocks to be loaded per chunk significantly, though more chunks would have to be loaded. 

    As for sky lighting, I assume the solution to preventing the game from having to load every single cubic chunk vertically would be similar to a 16x16 black and white image per chunk defining whether or not a chunk is transparent. That's about the limit of my imagination on this though, I have no idea about updating the image.

    And finally, a way to use all of this new vertical space. I agree that mountains need to be higher and oceans need to be deeper. More room for skyscrapers and more room for caves and tunnels.

    I think 1.17 being the mountain update would be the perfect excuse to implement at least ±512 build limit and taller mountains. More vertical room for mapmaking would make my favorite game even better. ♥

  • 5
    Marc Adrian commented
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    Agreed. And while we're at it, let's raise the cloud height, too. Currently, they are far too low.

    And as above, so below. I'd love to see more depth to the underground, but I've said this elsewhere.

  • 2
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    The Build Height should be doubled, I'm building New York City and I can't fit alot of buildings

     

  • 2
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    I think the build limit should at least be doubled. I personally see no downsides except performance of the game. I think this should really be implemented for building. Right now I want to build a 1:1 scale of Minas Tirith from Lord of The Rings. 1.17 would be a perfect time to do this update because of the mountain biome update.

  • 2
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    Ability to change cloud height server side would be pretty neat.

  • 7
    traajic commented
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    In regards to structures, I think their size should be increased as well. It just tends to feel underwhelming when encountering a structure for the 3rd/ 5th/ 100th time. I think this tends to be mostly due to the lack of variance between the structures created and the size of them. Just some examples are the single - room desert temple (which is a classic, not necessarily complaining), the 3x3x3 tunnels of the stronghold, and the ocean temple (which was an improvement, but always generates the same way with hardly any important details in the structure. I just feel that new structures added (and possibly pre-existing ones too) should have larger size and grandeur. I think Minecraft tends to struggle with making something ominous and grand. They end up being somewhat hard to find and not worth finding twice (jungle temple.) To complement this change and the larger structures it would bring, it would make sense to increase the build limit, but probably not by just making mountains taller. I think either increasing the space underground for these new structures to generate or increasing space above ground would be a much appreciated change for many players (mostly builders) that play in Vanilla Minecraft. I wouldn't consider the extra space "wasted" either because it makes for a great canvas for many great builders.

  • 2
    John Bush commented
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    Yeah, I like the Idea of larger mountains. I think the Minecraft world generation is kinda boring. Don’t get me wrong, I love the game, but the over world is kinda bland as far as it’s generation goes. No matter how many mobs or biomes the devs add the generation is just too.....same in my opinion.

  • 2
    SurrealJCOne commented
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    If you change it, would you raise the sea level to 100? or lower the bedrock to -50.   Ive never had built limit issues but I don't play much variety or build too crazy.

  • 3
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    What about getting rid of the void. Please replace the useless void with more world generation? Also, please make the clouds more realistic with rain falling from the clouds and not from an empty sky? Make the clouds look like the clouds in real life? More weather would be a nice addition as well, for instance, tornadoes, hail, wind, sleet and hurricanes.

  • 1
    Ervindark commented
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    • It should be custom height.
    • Set before creating the map.
    • min: 256 max: 512 - 2048*

    *depends on pc capabilities.

    Mountain height and snow level change accordingly?

  • 1
    Oliver Hay commented
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    If the world height is made higher I think they should also make the earth deeper so if theres ever a cave update there would be more room for biomes dungeons and what ever. 

  • 0
    MrTongueKing commented
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    With this, a "space" biome could be added above y level 256. Asteroids and floating rocks could be added, as well as a jump boost or something to mimic decreased gravity.