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643

The world generation and Height Limit

under review

69 Comments

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  • 18
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    I think if the build limit was doubled it would make more sense to add floating islands than to make the mountains higher.  Although they would have to make the light for the bottom half not be blocked by those islands.  Because as it stands the area under them would become permanent night monster city.

    And they fixed building on the nether ceiling on bedrock by making the build limit shorter.  Found that out the hard way when I went to build a pigman farm...

  • 15
    CivetKitty commented
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    It could be biome dependant. Some biomes will have mountains, and others would have floating islands. Either way, it's better than 400 layers of air. 

  • 15
    TyeWatson commented
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    I would love to have a higher height limit. Make the underground deeper too with cave biomes. There needs to be a mining update. All about making minecraft more minecraft. Make mountains larger. I've been wanting to build something that requires 500+ blocks high! But limited by the 256 height limit. So I canceled my build until the height limit is changed.

  • 12
    BlazingBeam commented
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    Cool idea! Very thoughtful, this can also make way for double cloud layers to add more realism to clouds. :)

  • 10
    PolarMammoth commented
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    The mountain biomes (previously known as extreme hills) would definitely benefit from at least being as tall as the crazy shattered savannah biomes (the almost amplified savannah biome).

  • 9
    Cory Smart commented
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    The mountains in the game are honestly a joke right now. I build cities and suburbs and the average house (and I build compactly) is half the height of the surrounding “mountains.” My skyscrapers are twice the height of the surrounding mountains. I’ve also always wanted to build mountain towns but there isn’t enough area within the mountains to build. Mountains have tall peaks with wide, sprawling valleys in between them where people have settled and cities and sprouted. That’s impossible to replicate in the game with the current mountain structures we have.

  • 8
    avnixmail commented
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    I think that if the height limit were increased, the height of all land should also be raised significantly. This would allow for larger caves and cave systems while still leaving room for plenty of solid stone between them.

  • 8
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    Having cubic chunks would work well, making the world not load 100+ blocks of air per chunk. If cubic chunks were implemented, the world would only need to load 4,096 (16^3) blocks per chunk, rather than 65,536 (16^4) blocks.  If the goal of the build limit is to stop the game from loading potentially millions of blocks per chunk, and cubic chunks are added, then I don't see why not to get rid of the build limit. The world border should go upwards too, effectively encasing the world in an enormous cube. World generation could stay the same. The Nether wouldn't need a ceiling, as floating islands going up to the faraway world border would work. A change like this would revolutionize large-scale building and chunk loading. 

  • 7
    Pangamma commented
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    I don't even care if the sky is left unpopulated. Mappers and modders can take care of that. I just want to be able to build huge skyscraper builds and large organics. 

  • 7
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    Instead of going up why not go down? A sort of negative hight if you will. We could have underground villages and cities, New Mobs, new ores, new dungeons, and maybe a new nether portal, maybe some patches of bedrock at -256 could be replaced by portals in dungeons similar to the end portal.

  • 7
    XerneraC commented
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    I think a "cubic chunk"-like system is long overdue. The world generation would not be affected at all, and what they could do is not to save (or just take note of that the chunk was generated) any chunks, that are just air, because going off the original max mountain height of 150, it makes sense to assume, that about 50% of every chunk is just air.

  • 7
    traajic commented
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    In regards to structures, I think their size should be increased as well. It just tends to feel underwhelming when encountering a structure for the 3rd/ 5th/ 100th time. I think this tends to be mostly due to the lack of variance between the structures created and the size of them. Just some examples are the single - room desert temple (which is a classic, not necessarily complaining), the 3x3x3 tunnels of the stronghold, and the ocean temple (which was an improvement, but always generates the same way with hardly any important details in the structure. I just feel that new structures added (and possibly pre-existing ones too) should have larger size and grandeur. I think Minecraft tends to struggle with making something ominous and grand. They end up being somewhat hard to find and not worth finding twice (jungle temple.) To complement this change and the larger structures it would bring, it would make sense to increase the build limit, but probably not by just making mountains taller. I think either increasing the space underground for these new structures to generate or increasing space above ground would be a much appreciated change for many players (mostly builders) that play in Vanilla Minecraft. I wouldn't consider the extra space "wasted" either because it makes for a great canvas for many great builders.

  • 6
    Sora Son commented
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    We need Oceans to be deeper as well. Like make the underground be deeper then just 64 blocks to bottom. I would love to see like a ocean so deep it would be like 250 blocks deep. Just look at subnautica 

     

  • 6
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    While I certainly wouldn't object to the natural terrain making better use of the current available 256 block limit, it doesn't really address any of the issues faced by those who would like a higher world height.

     

    When being truly honest about the situation if the developers where to consider raising the world height as, then simply raising the world to 512 blocks would be a very short lived band-aid on the issue. In terms of the scale needed to create truly immersive environments from bedrock to sky limit, 100's of blocks just isn't enough, the order of magnitude does need to be assessed and for this new thinking is needed.

    Also don't get me wrong it's not that a 512 height would be worthless, but considering the technical challenges that need to be over come with taller world and the potential impact it will have on performance, I would rather the job was done properly.

    Discussions as to what extra height space would be used for, I'd like to quote "If you build it, they will come." Mojang/microsofts job here is mostly to provide the canvas on which others can paint. Firstly create a game engine which can handle the height even if it only for now makes use of a really limited amount of the available build space. The opportunities it will create will be reward enough to get the ball rolling.

  • 5
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    I like the idea of higher mountains as well, and I hope the building limit will be increased to at least 512, I hope higher of course. It's happened to me a lot that I ran out of verticle building space, even when building from layer 1 upwarts, It's just not enough for megastructures.

  • 5
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    An increased height limit is way overdue, 256 blocks is just far too small. I think the idea of adding negative Y would be awesome, perhaps the limit could be increased to ±512, or, even better, ±1024. ±2048 would probably be too much. 

    A cubic chunk implementation would be a great way to get around the 65536 block chunk size. The new chunks don't even have to be cubic, they could just be 256 block tall chunks stacked on top of each other, but cubic would make more sense and reduce the amount of blocks to be loaded per chunk significantly, though more chunks would have to be loaded. 

    As for sky lighting, I assume the solution to preventing the game from having to load every single cubic chunk vertically would be similar to a 16x16 black and white image per chunk defining whether or not a chunk is transparent. That's about the limit of my imagination on this though, I have no idea about updating the image.

    And finally, a way to use all of this new vertical space. I agree that mountains need to be higher and oceans need to be deeper. More room for skyscrapers and more room for caves and tunnels.

    I think 1.17 being the mountain update would be the perfect excuse to implement at least ±512 build limit and taller mountains. More vertical room for mapmaking would make my favorite game even better. ♥

  • 5
    Marc Adrian commented
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    Agreed. And while we're at it, let's raise the cloud height, too. Currently, they are far too low.

    And as above, so below. I'd love to see more depth to the underground, but I've said this elsewhere.

  • 4
    WazzaSEQ commented
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    I love building skyscraper filled cities — for that the 256 height limit is quite low, especially if you want to make the ground level high enough for decent basements, tunnels, and minecart subways!

    I’d like the height limit to be 1024 but 512 would be ok. Along with the height limit increase I’d like an option for a 64m deep super flat world instead of the normal 4m you get on super flat in Bedrock. This would enable tunnels, etc. Ideally it should be possible to push the clouds higher too - preferably above the height limit as I have no desire to build into the clouds.

    Finally whatever the height limit it’s critical the view distance is great enough to see the ground from the top of your structures and vice versa, even if that means enabling really retro graphics quality to get out to 64 block render distance and beyond even on modest hardware.

  • 4
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    Another thing they could do, alongside mountains, is make for more underground space. This would work well alongside a height limit increase. (And an update to caves. *cough cough, Mojang.*)

  • 4
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    It also would be better to go from really wide worlds to really tall worlds. The world size is infinite one way and should also be the other way.

  • 4
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    At some level it bothers me that the lighting issue seems to be such a problem for this idea. It is certainly not an unsolvable problem, reducing memory consumption for lighting data is a matter of compressing opacity data, essentially because all you are doing is searching for the next opaque block, smart data structures can compress 1000's of chunks worth of opacity into a few bits of data simply by adding a little meta data to the lighting info and creating clusters of chunks.

    Using a single byte of meta data, you could determine whether either the entire chunk, 4 chunks, 16, and so on to 16,384 chunks of data are transparent. Quickly identifying the next opaque block millions of blocks away really doesn't require the engine to search every block.

    Honestly the world doesn't need to be millions of blocks tall, but within this methodology alone, you would be able to find the next opaque block to any location in 8 lookups to a world 262,144 blocks tall. And arguably the way the world loads chunks 256 blocks tall at the moment, the memory required for solving light would be reduced.

  • 4
    AnonymousDud3 commented
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    I completely agree with this! The fact that the devs haven't fully utilized the terrain generation height we have access to isn't even being used to it's maximum potential making it pointless to even have a 256 block height limit in the first place!

    There are even mods like RTG (Realistic terrain generation) that utilize minecraft's height limit to make amazing vistas that are just astounding to look at (even WITHOUT shaders). Since we'll be getting better mountains in 1.17 I would like to propose that Mojang take full advantage of the resources that they never even bothered to use in the first place!

  • 3
    Gamaxp420 commented
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    Yes please

  • 3
    Blast Burner commented
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    I would love to see a higher built limit. This could help with even more world generations such as bigger caves.

  • 3
    c. g commented
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    As a builder it is really bad if you always have to stick to the 256. you could build so much better things if you just had more space.

  • 3
    Azrhei commented
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    When they had custome preset options you could actually change the natural heigt so ground/sea level was 128 and it would generate the world relative to this. They need to raise the build limit, bring back custom generation and set the default options higher. Maybe 128, but include a preset for classic style. Maybe even make build limit customizable.

  • 3
    Darrenman6474 commented
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    I'd also be fine with having negative y values, just as there are negative x and z values. y=0 doesn't have to be the bottom. Why not have the bottom expand to -128 or -256?

  • 3
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    I personally love this idea, but I think the drawbacks are on the technological side of the game. Ever since Microsoft has taken control of Mojang, their focus has been to make the game as accessible and connected as possible as seen with both the heavy optimizations and the cross-platform capabilities of Minecraft: Bedrock Edition. Doubling the height limit would increase world sizes by orders of magnitude, changing a 65536 block chunk to a 131072 block chunk, every chunk, for the entire world. This would probably take a lot of changes to fix how the world generate, save, and may not be viable for weaker systems like phones. I really really love this idea but I think that it's going to take a lot of convincing, and a lot of pros, to get the devs on it.

  • 3
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    I would like the block limit to be something ridiculous, like 4096. Insane mountains and deep deep caves.

  • 3
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    I'm very surprised that this has not gotten more traction. I am a map builder and the potential has been capped, 256 is simply not enough for most skyscrapers when even scaled way down. This will also allow for deeper caves and such.