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Let's talk about Villager Trading! - Librarian, Wondering Trader

The latest snapshot/preview includes experimental changes to the wandering trader and librarian trades, which we're introducing to rebalance the villager trade system. Here's a look at what's changed: 

Librarian

Before these changes, players could get any village enchantment from any librarian. A novice librarian could sell the best enchantment in the game! For some players, this felt too random and made trading feel overpowered when compared to using the enchanting table or searching for enchanted books in structures.

With the new rules, librarians from different biomes sell different enchantments, and each village biome has one enchantment that is only sold by master librarians.

Players will have to work towards getting the best trades instead of relying on random chance. We hope this makes librarian trading more interesting and skilful, while also revealing some clues about their history of each village type through the enchantments that are sold there.
 
Wandering Trader

Some players felt that the Wandering Trader had unfair prices and didn't sell many useful items. We have lowered their prices, added more trades and increased the amounts available. The Wandering Trader will also now buy useful items from players, so it's possible to help them on their journey by giving them supplies even if you don't feel like buying anything.

As this is an experiment, we would really appreciate your feedback as work continues and to help us decide on the future direction for villager trades!

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  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Don't need to over complicate things or make them tedious. Either leave it as is or have an option before creating a world where you can tick Villager re-balancing on or off (Off by Default). You shouldn't force players to have to travel thousands of blocks and transport Villagers into there base. Make's the world size bigger, makes server lag worse and makes the process take many more hours then it should. It's definitely not rewarding for the newer players either.

  • 1
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    I understand the need to rebalance villager trading - and I'm actually on the side of many of these changes. But something very important needs to be considered: A Minecraft world, more often than not, has biomes thousands of blocks away from home. This leads to a very tricky dilemma - let's say a very important enchantment, especially those needed in bulk like mending, unbreaking, etc, is only available that far away? 

    You could travel all the way to that village every time you want to make that trade. But that would require hours of travel unless you have an elytra, and lacking those important enchantments would make using the Nether that much harder. It would also require you to bring tons of emeralds along in that journey to be potentially lost, unless you have echests to spare. 

    You could bring the villager home, which is what most people would want, and that's what I'll focus on. How? Current methods of mob transportation are extremely inconvenient or unviable for long-distance travel - since you can't lead a villager and minecarts across that distance would cost a ton, boats are really the only true option here. What if there's a lot of land in the way? Hilly land especially?

    I think if these changes are to be implemented, we need a new method to transport mobs. Whether that's tying a lead from a boat to a horse or camel, or a brand new method entirely, locking villagers to a specific region will only lead to headache and dull, pointless grinding without new transport. 

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    I think this is a bad change, but moving in the right direction. The biome specific enchants don't really make intuitive sense to me, Why would certain enchants only be traded in certain biomes? How would this be explained to less technical players? If there are trades specific to jungle & swamp villagers, how come there are no villages there?

    Add to that the fact that moving villagers is a massive chore, the level cap on anvils making it difficult to get maxed out tools with regular enchanting, and the inability to obtain the enchantments on superflat worlds makes this change ifffy to me.

    Instead of locking the enchantments to specific biomes, how about making librarian villagers require extra workstations and recources to be able to make certain enchanted books, for example a trade where the librairian needs access to an anvil in addition to the lectern to make durability books, and the trade requires you to trade some iron along with the emeralds and book.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I quite like this change! I've only ever dabbled in villager trading for enchantments (mostly for mending) but I love mechanics that motivate us to spread out our infrastructure for different purposes.

    However in my opinion, if you're re-evaluating enchantment trades, you'll also need to reconsider enchanting as a whole. The reason why players use villager trades is because it's less tedious than manual enchanting. Even with an incredibly efficient xp farm, enchanting your gear is still somewhat of a grind. It's even harder to get perfect tools without any kind of farm, to the point of it being practically impossible.

    This problem actually really reminds me of how the universal use of iron farms was fixed, which was by making conventionally obtaining iron much more efficient. I think that if you want to make the player engage with the game's core mechanics instead of villager trading, then you could make the core mechanics themselves more engaging. As suggestion I'd say you could use the same idea of biome-based enchantments, but apply the to normal enchanting as well. This could make it easier and more efficient to get the enchantments you want, and you won't have to deal having chests full of blast protection and and multishot books when you just need a single unbreaking book. Of course, you could take another route entirely, but I that modifying the core enchantment mechanics is the way to go. Good luck!

  • 27
    Registered User commented
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    I think the villager change/nerf still needs a lot of changes but we're moving in the right direction in my opinion. I think we either need the higher level enchantments back to the trading system or buff the anvil. because now there is no way to get a maxed out item like a sword or some boots without getting a few high level enchantments on them with an enchantment table which is based on luck and you guys want to stop the luck thing. so I think we need either an anvil buff that needs less levels for enchanting or the higher level enchantments back to the trading system.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    It's good they balanced it because every Minecraft player would still be crying and suffering from the saddest and worst thing in single-player games - the lack of balance.

    Of course, this balance is so crucial that they had to add it, instead of introducing new interesting features, mobs, or items. Just balance that nobody asked for.

    Well done, Mojang!
    Follow every game developer who balances everything because a few pro players cry and suffer due to the lack of balance."

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    I don't like this solution at all. Superflat-players aren't able to gain all enchantments this way and overall it makes it way too hard. The thing I would change is to exclude other enchantments. A fishing rod, as well as a trident and a crossbow, aren't used as much, so this change would further accelerate this behavior. But I would exclude the following enchantments from villagers: Mending, Silktouch and Frost walker. Those are as special and as strong as swift sneak and soul speed.

    And if you still want biome depending on trades, give one exclusive to each biome, so for example depth strider can only be achieved by trading with swamp villagers and other biomes have also one exclusive trade.

    To summarize: Keep Everything the way it was, but exclude Mending, Silktouch and Frost walker from Villager Trading.

     
  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    I see where you're coming from and what you're trying to do with this update, but it all just sounds too tedious to me personally.

    Enchanting isn't something I do all too often. I enchant my main set of armor and tools and, unless I die or lose it, I never really do much more enchanting. I definitely wouldn't spend hours building villager trading posts in every biome just to be able to trade specific enchantment books. I'd much sooner sit at an enchanting table for a while, get the enchantments I need and be done with it.

    I don't know, maybe it's just me...

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I think the biome thing is great but we should still be able to get maxed out books, maybe for an uped minimal price (since the min price is often pretty low), or a lower rng roll like its rarer, and not be able to lower it too much through zombie curing. Or maybe we have to keep the villager happier like with stuff we ca give him so he make better enchantments or with specific blocks we have to place near his lectern. And maybe implement that with other villagers like armourers could craft armour trims or trimmed armour at master level if we learn them how to or macons can dublicate decorated pot we give them, it would be a nice way of bringing back to life lost knowledge and craftsmanship into the world !

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    Adding to my previous post:

    4) If curing multiple times, the prices are too high to get started or of the wandering trader to randomly come across it. On one hand it's good to encourage exploring and traveling but then:

    - permanent infrastructure means like boats and minecarts need a proper overhaul 

    - inventory management needs urgent improvement

    On the other hand if you are out and about so much, chances are, you are not at your base, where you have your emerald stash and I certainly don't want to rebuild every farming, trading etc. facility multiple times for every villager biome and to have one close enough for whatever the wandering trader might need or might sell.

    In survival games travel time and grinding time need to be balanced so that it doesn't feel like a waste of time. And that is even more true for Minecraft because it has such a wide audience regarding age. I am a working adult by now and I don't have the time to grind endlessly or to travel 15min to somewhere or to spend two hours looking for a biome or to mine for resources. I think in a game like Minecraft where it is the point that it is open and you chose how you want to play, that you are not forced into a certain playstyle. If you want to make it harder you can, if you don't want to use features that make it easier, you can. But I also try to get new friends into Minecraft but I often face 2 problems: Too much grind  & travel time, that is not rewarding, too little self-explanatory, difficult for an open game

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    While I like the change overall (maybe it doesnt make dealing with them a lot easier but at least you know what you will get and can work for an exakt enchantment instead of mindless breaking and placing a lectern) I think a few issues still need to be adressed. For example it seems a bit unfair that after trading a villager to its maximum level you still dont get perfekt enchants, but only lower tiers (Fortune 2, Unbreaking 2, Protection 3, Sharpness 3, Efficiency 3). I would suggest making these levels either the minimum or offering all levels, while giving each level its own probability to somewhat balance the hard work you have to do to get a librarian to level 5. Even if Mojang rejects this idea, please change Sharpness and Efficiency to Level 4, the other three are all one below their max level but as Sharpness and Efficiency both go up to level 5 this feels a bit unfair.

  • 1
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    "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game"
    -Soren Johnson

    You may see some players in this thread complaining about these changes, but I think most of them could be swayed if the enchanting system was improved.

    I love these changes and I think they have been needed for a long time now. Because it was the most optimized route, with the only requirement being tedious work, most semi-competent players were funneled into grindy villager breeders and trading stations, that trivialize so much of the game's content simply by being more "efficient".

    From what I've seen, Minecraft is much more fun when you take things slowly and go at your own pace. The people that are clammering to the old villager gameplay are the types of people that play through the whole game in two weeks and then burn out because there isn't anything to do.

    I actually think Mojang should go one step further and nerf Raid Farms, so emeralds are harder to obtain.

    I'm really hoping these changes are implemented. For me, the problems with villagers were always something that should be fixed and I'm hoping Mojang fully goes through with these changes.

    The only thing I'm questioning is if Mending should be available at all. Because it is so powerful, I fear that it will just lead some types of players to go through even more tedious and grindy gameplay for this singular enchantment.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    hmmmmm I feel like there are better ways to go about this than making it so expensive to get efficiency 5 from villagers. Either keep this but make enchanting less RNG based or make another way to get the high level enchants. The reason people use villager trading isn't necessarily because of how powerful it is (definitely a reason) but because it's better than the alternatives of the roll, reroll of enchantment tables or random luck of exploring.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I enjoy the new trading changes, my one hesitation is the levels of enchant, if your plan is to not give us the highest enchantment level to teach us to combine as efficiently as possible then at least give us the next highest level so it only requires 2 books instead of 4 (to take efficiency 3 as a example)

    I appreciate the added level of complexity but as someone that gets overwhelmed already by everything we have to keep track of and double check wiki on it kinda needs to be taken down a notch

    Otherwise love the changes and added reasons to go to different biomes, fits in with the 1.20 exploration focus very well

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    Remove the "Too expensive!" thing before touching anything else with enchantment. Also, don't brick superflat worlds even more than you already do.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    About the Swamp and Jungle villagers, maybe add some sort of ruined village such as for the Jungle, a collection of tree houses with broken pathways the player has to fix, or for the Swamp, a village sinking into the ground, so the player has to work to get these types of villagers. This change would likely also require an AI change.

    For the Wandering Trader changes, good job! Makes me not want to kill them as much! Potentially make the invisibility potion slightly pricier? Say, 6-8 emeralds? It feels like a free potion, especially since early game, most players haven't been to the nether.

    The Librarian situation, is... interesting. The theory is good, but from what I've seen most people aren't happy they have to trade and combine so many books (Efficiency 3=4 books for efficiency 5, etc), so maybe make it so that being in certain biomes makes it more likely to get these trades, and then discounting them before trading increases the chances of it being a high level book? Instead of being stuck with 4 books in 1 biome, this would allow the players to get the villager biome type they want (I personally try to use Snow or Taiga) and still have all books available to them.

    Instead of outright removing fishing enchantments from villagers, how about moving them to the Fisherman, but require having cured the villager before trading with him to get the books?

    Curing could be changed to have reduced impact, instead of being outright banned, which would cause dissatisfaction among many.

  • 14
    Registered User commented
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    I hear that repairs will be in the swamp biome and endurance will be in the jungle biome, but then at least put a village in the jungle biome and the swamp biome.

  • 17
    Registered User commented
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    These are great changes and people saying otherwise don't understand game design.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    This is a solution that is significantly worse than the problem. The main problem is that getting powerful enchants is too easy to get for veterans, the solution should not be to cripple everybody.

  • 58
    Registered User commented
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    A lot of people already considered villagers to be annoying and having to move them to different biomes just makes that worse

    When making a game you should put what is fun over what is more balanced

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    Regarding the Wandering Trader I think we all agree that it would be a great change because it was a bit useless.
    Regarding the trades of the villagers, I think they should be nerfed, but I don't think that spacing the enchantments across the different biomes is a good solution.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I think if you're gonna make us go to a swamp or jungle to get books you should give them their own villages, also up the "Too expensive" point for combining books since it's gonna be costly.

  • 0
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    The changes to villagers make the game more tedious and grindy, not more fun. Villagers are already pretty tricky to work with, but with enough commitment there's an appropriate amount of reward. If you're going to change the villager system don't make them give you less valuable and more difficult to obtain rewards, go the other way. Make the rewards more interesting and fun and useful. If you want to change the process of obtaining those rewards make it more fun and approachable not more laborious. This change would just make me ignore villagers all together, and I'd play survival a lot less. It would just be too grindy to get my tools up to snuff so that I can build without hinderance.

  • 50
    Registered User commented
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    Worst idea i have ever seen.... It will break normal life at survival-oriented servers.

  • 76
    Registered User commented
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    I don't want to spend ages getting tools. I play this game to build and not grind for starter tools! Might need to go back to creative mode to build instead of building in survival. Don't make it a sandbox game if one has to grind for ages before even getting started on building stuff. Please! I am the only one using villager trading on a server because it is already tedious enough. It's my choice if i want to spend days setting up all the trades with librarians to get easier access later on when i die. Or if i want to enchant on table running around with non maxed out gear.. Buff Enchanting table, don't nerf other stuff to bring users to use bad methods! Good thing this buff bad stuff, not make good stuff worse.. Used not enough today!

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    PLEASE don't go ahead with the villager updates. I agree with removing the trades for fishing rod, trident and crossbow but PLEASE have all other trades possible from every villager type. If you wanted to still balance it you could add something where it is rarer to find certain enchants from a certain villager type but not impossible. The average player probably does not know that you can create artificial villages in the other 2 biomes. In my opinion if this villager overhaul goes ahead it will be the worst update in Minecraft history.

  • 1
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    I think the biome dependant villager trades makes it unnecessary hard for many players as they will have to travel thousands if not 10s of thousands of blocks just to find the correct biome, furthermore the fact you cannot get max level books for some enchants ruins the already tedious experience. I do agree it needs a revamp but I don’t think making it much more tedious is the right options as it is already incredibly boring and tedious to do. 

    this change would ruin the game and make an already painful experience even worse, as well as not being able to get max books and the zombification bug fix meaning that a lot more emeralds and in turn time will be needed, if anything I think you should be able to get more books per villager and for each level you get a new level of book so 1st trading level should be sharp 1 but then master should be sharp 5 which insentivises levelling up Without making it a lot harder, also emerald yields will need to be boosted

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    This change is honestly terrible. The biggest issue with the game is how grindy everything is, this system, along with the netherite upgrade change, just makes everything artificially more grindy. Stop with this. Removing trident, crossbow, and fishing rod enchantments is only a good thing because it makes it easier to get other enchants from librarians except for the fact you completely removed that mechanic!

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I dont think this is a good idea in the long run, villagers are already a pain as it is now mojang is making these biome dependant :/

  • 30
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    The changes to the librarian sound like they might add some interest at first, but when I think about late game I imagine this would add so, so much pointless headaches.