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Let's talk about Villager Trading! - Librarian, Wondering Trader

The latest snapshot/preview includes experimental changes to the wandering trader and librarian trades, which we're introducing to rebalance the villager trade system. Here's a look at what's changed: 

Librarian

Before these changes, players could get any village enchantment from any librarian. A novice librarian could sell the best enchantment in the game! For some players, this felt too random and made trading feel overpowered when compared to using the enchanting table or searching for enchanted books in structures.

With the new rules, librarians from different biomes sell different enchantments, and each village biome has one enchantment that is only sold by master librarians.

Players will have to work towards getting the best trades instead of relying on random chance. We hope this makes librarian trading more interesting and skilful, while also revealing some clues about their history of each village type through the enchantments that are sold there.
 
Wandering Trader

Some players felt that the Wandering Trader had unfair prices and didn't sell many useful items. We have lowered their prices, added more trades and increased the amounts available. The Wandering Trader will also now buy useful items from players, so it's possible to help them on their journey by giving them supplies even if you don't feel like buying anything.

As this is an experiment, we would really appreciate your feedback as work continues and to help us decide on the future direction for villager trades!

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  • 0
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    It would be more useful to make enchanting tables and anvils less of a hassle and better respectively instead of this. Locking specific enchantments behind biomes sounds good in theory, but in practice it puts players at the mercy of world gen RNG which is already bad enough for most biome exclusive content.

    Regarding the fix for cure-stacking, Hero of the Village could use to be buffed. The discount it provides has almost always paled in comparison to what can be done with a single cure on a zombie villager.

    Wandering Traders are improved substantially, but they could use to purchase a couple more items. Especially since players may not have villages or villagers present or nearby to obtain emeralds from. That is one of the less spoken about issues with the traders.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    This is terrible for server owners, it means more lag as more villagers, more used space as there'd be more people looking for their own swamps, jungles, etc. It's terribly unoptimized and makes an already tedious process a whole lot more tedious. 

    I'm all for the nerfing of villagers, but this isn't how you do it.

  • 1
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    If you are going to do this, anvils need to be completely reworked. The reason we use villagers instead of a normal enchanting method is the fact that it's almost impossible to get "perfect" tools and armor from normal means, always having that one terrible enchantment you never want, like knockback. It does not make sense for one enchantment to cost 40 levels in an anvil, but it makes even less sense for it to be "too expensive" and not give you the option.

  • 0
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    People: Minecraft is too hard and there is no endgame content
    Mojang: Adds difficulty and endgame content
    People: Noooooo Mojang RUINS EVERYTHING!!!

  • 1
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    If we are going to go to the effort of making sure we get a villager from every biome, it needs to be max trades. No one is going to go through the effort of making a village in a specific biome just for efficiency 3. 

  • 227
    Registered User commented
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    All of these nerfs feel like extreme overkill and would make it no longer worth it to have villagers. 

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    This is really, really bad change. It is true that villagers are the best way to get enchantments, but I think that instead of nerfing villagers, you should make other methods viable. As it is, villagers are used not because they are fun, but because they are simple, straightforward, and consistent. It would be a far better change to just make the enchantment table remotely viable by changing the way it works, such as making it possible to influence the enchants you can get.

  • 0
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    This change would also push players towards using tools such as chunkbase instead of actually exploring. This would be less of a problem if it was possible for a cartographer villager to sell a map to any biome. This could be random chance the way librarians used to be. The difference is, if I got fire protection from a librarian I would just roll my eyes and reset, but if I got "desert biome map" from a cartographer, I would think. "Eh, that could be useful, I'll keep it." Randomness there would not be an issue.

  • 65
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    This would be more acceptable if we had a better way to move villagers. If they can get in boats with us, why can't they get on llamas with us? This would make llamas much more useful. 

  • 0
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    I don't see how removing certain enchantments from the loot pool helps anything. 

  • 1
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    This change only makes obtaining villagers more tedious, with moving villagers around being limited to boats and minecarts, having to move my villagers to a jungle or swamp and breed them there to get mending or unbreaking, then re-centralize them, just adds time. In my opinion placing and breaking a lectern over and over again is bad, however this is not the way to fix that.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    villager cycling to get the right enchants is not fun to begin with
    biome lock makes it even more NOT FUN

    instead make use of hero of the village to get the right enchants

    this way u need to use a new mechanic that is not easy but very usefull

  • 1
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    This is another change that only makes the game more tedious, and that widens the gap between experienced players and the more casual ones. You've replaced the randomness of rerolling trades with the randomness of the world seed, which can be significantly more brutal. At least with replacing job site blocks you know you will eventually get what you're looking for. There's no guarantee that all of these biomes will be found within a reasonable distance.

    This is a major part of the game you're toying with and it shouldn't be done rashly and shoved into some minor version release.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    the changes to villagers sounds like a very tacky solution to a non issue. this will make endgame more tedious and boring, and completely ruins superflat survival. enchantments and tools should only be difficult if a player wants them to be otherwise the game becomes annoying, once I've beaten the dragon and am extending my base, I don't want to be running around making new tools every few thousand blocks I mine, nor do I want to deal with transporting villagers potentially thousands of blocks

  • 67
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    I do definitely think that if you want to lock certain books behind the jungle & swamp, you should add swamp & jungle villages (or maybe add some sort of intuitive way for players to learn how villager breeding works?)

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    If swamp and jungle biomes had villages, special trades were maxed enchants, and more micro-biomes littered world gen, I'd be much happier with this change. But without these changes, librarians will be much less useful than other methods of acquiring enchants and require tedious amounts of transport.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    because of superflat and the need to travel to biomes very far away from my base i do not support this potential change

  • 0
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    The new Wandering trader trades are pretty useless, but I do like concept of selling items to them.

    The proposed librarian changes would, however, ruin the Superflat experience
    I propose to either up the chances of certain trades appearing per biome, because Superflat would become unplayable otherwise

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I think it is good, but don't you guys think that a lot of other books are missing like riptide, channeling and more.

    Also not to forget the higher levels of the (as you said OP Books of each biome) like sharpness or unbreaking or protection will make the anvil crafting too expensive for making good gear.
    Please consider these things.
    But overall it's a good idea to go and explore other biomes for enchanted books because we already have this mechanic like swift sneak in deep dark and soul speed in the nether.

  • 19
    Registered User commented
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    I think the changes to the books available are a step in the right direction, but it is very unclear which books are sold in which biomes and that they change depending on the biome. 

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I guess these changes depend on how you viewed the villager trading system *before* the snapshot. If you thought that villager trading was OP, I can see how you could see these as good changes.

    I however completely disagree. To me (and pretty much every member of my survival server) villager trading has become increasingly tedious and annoying. Making villagers biome dependent *and* lowering the max quality of a bunch of trades only makes it worse. 

    To be fair, I think the villager curing change is balanced. But the biome dependency only makes the headache of villager trading halls way worse. If they're going to increase discouragement of using villagers, players need other better options. Fishing/enchanting tables just don't cut it. 

  • 1
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    I understand where the desire to nerf villager trading is coming from, but at the same time this completely removes the ability to reliably produce max enchant gear when the anvil level limit is taken into consideration. This may not be the sort of thing that standard survival players will care that much about, but it's also something I see very frequently in moderate-to-larger SMPs where people will want to host some kind of combat-related event and mass produce armor sets before hand either to buff up mobs or players. Before this nerf, creating max enchant armor sets is doable specifically if enchanted in the correct order, we're already toeing the line on the anvil's arbitrary level cap, after this it'll be entirely impossible to reliably do. Either the villager nerf needs dramatically rethought or the anvil limit should just be removed (which frankly would be the better option).

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    I really don’t like the changes. I don’t think they will achieve what you hope they will. They won’t make villagers less op. This will simply make them more inaccessible to more casual players and a bit grindier for more experienced players.

  • 0
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    I do hope you understand that nobody is going to "build a village" in each of these biomes. As soon as that villager is born and reached adulthood after someone goes afk for 20 minutes it's getting shipped straight into a minecart towards my base where it sits in a prison cell for all of eternity. 

  • 0
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    Honestly, while I do understand that Villager trading could use a rework. This is certainly not the way how to in my opinion.
    The grind for getting decent trades is already quite hefty, and punishing that by adding more onto it by forcing us to travel villagers around (which can already be quite a pain) and have medium level enchants locked at the highest level. It more so feels at that point that you might as well stop with villager trading altogether.
    I can understand wanting to have a higher level book trade to be available only at a Master level of sorts. But then do so with the highest level. And not with Level 3.
    For example, have Fortune 3 be at Master Level, and not Fortune 2.

    While argument can of course be made that adding 2 books together for a max level enchant is an option. And certainly not a hard thing to do considering you do also get EXP from trading. In the long run, for example people making shops in an SMP, only got that much more grind to do at that point.

    My suggestion for the Villager rebalance?
    Quick and simple.

    1: Don't make them biome dependant.
    2: Max Level Enchants are only available at the Master Level of trading done.

    Oh, and a sidenote:
    While I get wanting to remove some enchantments off the trading list, like the ones for the Trident.
    The Crossbow one seems a tad odd. Considering it would certainly be something that they could be selling. Or if you're that keen on keeping them out of the Villager trades. Add them in with the Piglins instead

  • 1
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    This is a severely negative change to the game. It's taking something that is already hard and time-consuming (but rightfully so) and making it unnecessary difficult and frustrating. As is, villager trading takes time and a grind; I spend 6 hours last week re-doing my trading hall for around 35 new librarians and that was enough for me. I can't imaging having to: A. Fly around possibly thousands of blocks to  B.Bring in villagers from other biomes to then breed into this new villages, causing extra time spent transporting, to then have to C. make a whole new breeder and  D. transport these villagers back possibly thousands of blocks (and my city as is is over 6k blocks from a jungle so that would be a nightmare) and then E. have to do that 5 more times.  The players aren't gaining anything from this. There is no benefit or prize for putting in exponentially more time into trading halls. I understand the need to make players "explore", but forcing it is not the way to go. And I believe even if there was something, this change would not be worth and and I would strongly despise it. Besides the drastic impact to superflat words, servers with special rules and other considerations, this can't be added. And on top of that, we're not even able to get the highest level enchants, maxing out at lv 3, and we have to fully trade/max the villagers to get these. awful. In over 11 years of playing, I would consider this as one of the worst changes ever made, right behind Something else....

  • 37
    Registered User commented
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    While I think having the books spread across the biomes is a great idea, I do believe that we should still be able to get the max levels of the enchants from the villagers

  • 0
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    The only enchantment that should be nerfed and that is difficult to obtain is Mending, it doesn't seem fair to me that we have to explore unnecessarily or transport villagers (which is very difficult by the way) to these biomes for only 1 enchantment. I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE CHANGE

  • 266
    Registered User commented
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    Please stop trying to "balance" the game by just making things that are already fairly tedious even more so. (such as requiring smithing upgrade templates for netherite armor even though its already a pain for most players to get.)

  • 1
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    To me, the biggest problem with villagers threefold
    Villagers are by far the best (or even only!) way to get certain items in bulk
    Villagers are the worst to move around, especially in 1.14+ worlds, where they can get attached to barrels, beds et
    Villagers aren't intended to be moved around. One of the "definitely not" features in the feedback page specifically mentions that they will not add items to move villagers. This is made worse by the librarian changes, imo. Now you are required to move villagers to a swamp to get mending. This is counter-intuitive for very obvious reasons

    There are two ways of fixing this, imo. Nerf villagers, or buff other ways of getting these items. I'll focus on books, since those are the concern here
     
    If villagers were nerfed again, powerful enchants like prot 4, mending, unbreaking 3 etc could be removed from their trades, completely. No biome specific trades, no rng. This would make these very rare, and only obtainable from mob drops and exploration
     
    Personally, I would recommend buffing loot tables, especially in structures far from spawn. So you could wrangle villagers and all the headaches that entails, or pop on your elytra and raid some temples
     
    A final option, and the most daring, would be to once again overhaul trading, in order to reduce the
    effectiveness of trading halls, and other things that rely on moving villagers from their village. I suspect it would be very unpopular, and require other systems, such as iron farms to be overhauled too