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Let's talk about Villager Trading! - Cartographer, Armorer (Experimental)

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We're now introducing a second round of changes as part of our Villager Trading rebalancing experiment. The latest rebalances focus on the cartographer, armorer, and structure loot - here's a breakdown of what's changed: 

Cartographer 

  • Cartographers can sell 7 new maps - pointing to a different village or structure and can be used to find seven different biomes. This will help players who want to quickly find a specific location without waiting until they come across it by chance. 
  • Cartographers now sell 7 new maps: Desert Village Maap, Jungle Explorer Map, Plains Village Map, Savanna Map, Snow Village Map, Swamp Explorer Map, and Taiga Explorer Map

Armorer

  • Buying diamond armorer now requires paying a small amount of diamonds as well as emeralds.
  • Most master-level Armorers buy Iron Blocks (and pay very well for them).
  • Chainmail armor is exclusively sold by the secret Jungle and Swamp Armorers.
  • The Savanna armorer sells cursed diamond armor at reduced prices. 
  • The Taiga Armorer can swap one piece of diamond armor for another.

Structure Loot

Certain Enchanted Books now have a high chance of generating in some structures:

  • Ancient Cities: Mending
  • Mineshafts: Efficiency (I to V)
  • Pillager Outpots: Quick Charge (I to III)
  • Desert Temples: Unbreaking (I to III)
  • Jungle Temples: Unbreaking (I to III)

You can read up on the changes in more detail in the latest changelog! Once you've played, please let us know what you think in the comments.

Note that these changes are coming to Bedrock soon!

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  • 5
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    These changes are a good start but I think they will be better received if you make witch huts and jungle temples spawn with a zombie villager. Then they can be cured and give players access to the appropriate villager types for trading.

  • 15
    Registered User commented
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    It feels like Mojang is removing a manner to play the utilizing of villagers instead of mining and simply forcing you to play as they see fit.

    One must dig for diamond gear and a 2 diamond discount isn't appealing at all. Compare the effort and time investment: while mining for diamonds simply continue for an additional 8 diamonds or go around into multiple biomes, create villages, trade with them to maximum level to then save 8 diamonds for a full set of armor. With the same time investment especially with the increase in diamond ore one will gather significantly more sets.

    When are villagers supposed to be useful? Setting them up is a time investment. This has been significantly increased as well with the biome specific requirements. These changes just feel like villagers are going to be useless and only good for spawning iron golems.

    The double whammy of the increased time investment with the biomes and the price/rewards is to much. The biome part I can get behind, but their trades are just becoming void once again.

  • 24
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    As a ‘casual’ player who may rack up between 6 -10ish hours of minecraft a week on average, these ‘re-balances’ feel poorly thought out.

    A lot of the recent changes feel as if they are based on the mojang team watching larger power servers like sci-craft and trying to make the game harder for them. The issue is by doing this they you locking out all the regular players from doing much in the limited time they have in the game.

    With the proposed changes having to move villagers about hundreds of hundreds of blocks to even get semi-decent armour does not feel sustainable especially as moving villagers short distances is difficult and time consuming! A change like this results in my ‘casual’ play time being dictated to me in what is essentially a sand box game. The biome dependent changes only work if villagers are easier to move about.

    Alternately could you not add an extra element to the trade system instead such as mending books need a potion of healing, fire resistance books need a blaze rod etc to make trading slightly harder but not unobtainable.

    requiring players to pay several diamonds to buy diamond armour along with restricting what amour & tools are on offer feels counter-intuitive. Since the caves and cliffs update, my regular 3-4hour mining sessions usually only turn up about 4 diamonds (under powered pick ftw!). This change represents a higher number of hours required to get even a few pieces of decent amour! This is already demoralising & unengaging game play.

  • 20
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    I am worried the new changes could make villagers more frustrating to the player to the point they do not get used. frequently to find some biomes a player may need to travel tens of thousands of blocks. This new system will make villager trading frustrating as travelling that far without an elytra is very time consuming. and made far far worse if a player is trying to move a villager with them those great distances. This change will simply make more advanced players more frustrated by the tedious task of moving villagers long distances and cause people to spend less time actually exploring or building. I find that the current villager trading system is complicated enough to be rewarding without turning into a mind numbing grind. If the villagers were to change I would suggest experimenting with a different system that will not be so monotonous. 

  • 21
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    I cannot stress enough that the librarian changes do not enhance gameplay. They create annoying and unnecessary hoops to jump through before you can get to doing what you want to do. They require the player to look up charts, transport non leadable, non lurable mobs thousands of blocks, all to get trades that are subpar, lower level than what they used to be able to get for rerolling. 

    Instead of making lib villager trading more fun, this makes it unviable. A player would be better off enchanting hundreds of blank books at a table. I know lots of work has gone into trying to balance the trades, but I think the goal is strange. This does not make the game more fun. This does not make exploration fun, it makes it forced. This cannot reasonable be discovered in a world naturally, you would have to know exactly what do do already. If you want people to play the game more, you give players fun things to do, not chores. I think trying to balance the game based on the tiny fraction of pro players is a mistake. 

    While I believe all the librarian changes need to be scrapped, I love the cartographer changes. They encourage natural exploration, make outside the game tools less necessary, and look great. Having biome dependent cartographers is a good idea on paper, but I think it would be better if they were all avaible in every biome.

    The armor trades suffer the same biome lock problems, but I think them requiring diamonds is fair. 

    Overall, the biome changes make the game less fun to play.

     

  • 9
    Registered User commented
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    Overall all I don't mind the specialisation of the armourers - HOWEVER that is a niche case as you can (almost) always grindstone the enchantments off. The diamond requirement is just making the game more grindy. I point to the feedback on the previous changes (which hasn't been listed to apparently, I don't know if it is some pushy exec trying to make a name for themself or what but anyway) that you don't make a sandbox game better by taking sand out of the box. the various maps are simply a bandaid on the problems caused by the stupidity of trying to make these changes. If people don't want villager trading halls they don't have to build them, I am more than happy for better loot at monuments for people who are not technical and wish to get loot that way. but for those of us who are PLEASE DONT RUIN THE GAME!!  This change is stupid and will turn lots of technical players off of the game (or we will just play older versions) but either way Mojang you can do better - I enjoy Minecraft please don't ruin one of my childhood games.

  • 28
    Registered User commented
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    I think you need to add new things instead of destroying the old ones.

  • 17
    Registered User commented
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    Encouraging exploration is no problem, should we start by enriching the exploration content? The exploration cost is high, the process is long, and the return is low. By weakening the transaction among villagers, players are forced to explore outside, which is a bit of putting the cart before the horse.

  • 12
    Registered User commented
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    I can see from the comments that some people don't like these changes.

    This can be corrected by setting the "Trade with villagers - standard/advanced" setting in world creation.
    Everyone can choose what he wants!

  • 13
    Registered User commented
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    I think making biome specific trades is a good idea. However, I feel the implementation is lacking as the goal of updating MC should be to make it more fun.

    1. Librarian changes are good except that they do not sell max level enchants for most important books. This means to get those high level enchants you will have to look to other methods. I feel this limits gameplay making it less fun and more tedious.

    2. Armorer changes are also good except for making diamond armor cost diamonds. I feel this will gate many players in skyblock, limited worlds, and superflat. Diamonds are not renewable meaning armor is now not either. Diamonds already got a buff with the introduction of armor trims. I feel this change gates players and rather than costing diamonds it should cost another material like copper or just increase the emerald cost.

    3. Conversion price changes. Despite it being a heavy nerf I actually like the change to conversion and price decrease. I feel it will make the player be more creative with getting emeralds as they will need more. So while it creates more work it is fun work. It also helps peaceful players as using villagers for them is now slightly more viable.

    Therefore, I feel changing and nerfing villagers is good. However, I feel you are gating more players as you are making a complicated system even more complected. Not many players exploit villagers and as someone who does you just made the game more tedious and boring for those who do want to perfect everything.

     

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    These changes seem really good, although i do have a few concerns and suggestions
    My only real concern is regarding Superflat worlds with those being locked to plains Biomes its now going to be impossible to obtain certain items that played used to be able to access. maybe Superflat worlds could have their own custom biome that grants users access to all possible trades?

    My other suggestions are concerning other types of villagers we havent seen trades for.
    First is Flechers - Ive always found these villagers only get used for their Sticks -> Emerald Trade and very very specific Tipped Arrow Trades (Usally Slowfalling or Poison for PvP Usage)
    you could trade both sticks and string to get emeralds and then by bows of emeralds but it would be more cost effiecent to just craft it and in the case of the enchanted form the enchants wernt usally worth it by the time you would consider it (this point does now look to be fixed with the enchant nerfs villagers have)

    to make flechers more exiting seems to be a challange as there is minimal ranged combat items that a player needs but i think its worth considering a upgrade/change.

    Lastly is Mason villagers, I always loved the concept of being able to buy building materials from these villagers and now will the biome changes i would love to see diffrent blocks availble from diffrent villager types letting players have much larger varrity of blocks at their disposal if they put the time in to obtain the trades

  • 15
    Registered User commented
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    I don't think the new librarian changes work well with the current anvil and experience system. I feel if they kept the current changes they would need to rework the anvil system as well. Maybe add copper as an additional cost instead of just experience?

     

  • 3
    Registered User commented
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    I like the new villager changes.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    Overall, most of the villager changes seem to be in a healthy direction for the game. That said, 2 so far have gone a step too far, in my opinion:
    1) As of the previous Villager Update, the librarian enchantments are sometimes capped at too low a level. Namely, the enchants that require combining 4 books to get to max enchant level. (I can understand not offering the player max level enchant, especially on enchants with 4 or 5 levels, but going beyond 1 under max level can get prohibitive for the player.)
    2) As of this update, diamond armor charging diamonds. While making the armor pieces more expensive is fine, charging the diamonds themselves is a step too far, as this is a hindrance to certain types of play styles, such as Skyblock style maps, or just players who dislike or don't have the time to go mining.
    - Side note regarding the enchantments of armorers: Having different biome armorers make different enchants is a good thing, in my opinion, and follows the same line of thinking as the changes to the librarians.

  • 2
    Registered User commented
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    While it's nice that you gave us maps to these biomes, we'll still have to haul villagers all the way over to those biomes in order to have these trades

  • 2
    Registered User commented
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    I am against the villager update.
    The map update is interesting, but the armor smith update is the act of making diamond equipment a finite item, and it doesn't have a very good effect in a game that is basically attracted to mass producing supplies. .

    Additionally, trading with villagers in a savannah village can be a kind of discrimination against villagers, as armor smiths can be treated like garbage to players who are more experienced than others. If the initial spawn is near a savannah village, I will abandon that village.

    Similarly, the Librarian update is an update that only makes play inconvenient and does not make Minecraft more enjoyable to play, and is different from previous updates that had both advantages and disadvantages, so I would like to request that the Villager update be reconsidered.

    Many players are not in favor of increasing the difficulty of Minecraft.
    People who want to raise the difficulty are already using mods, and there is no merit in doing it in vanilla.
    Please understand that not all players value adventure even in survival.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Overall I am a big fan of the direction of the villager trading. I like that the armorer requires diamonds to get the diamond gear; this coupled with armor trims actually gives something to do with diamonds late-game besides horde them. I also think tying specific enchantments to the biome is a really good idea. I do wish it could be possible to get a max-level book from a master villager, but I suppose the aim is to make enchanting more viable and loot rarer.

    I would like to see an easier way to move villagers around, especially now that we have to go to make biomes across the world to get them all. Moving villagers around is something I always dread. I'm not sure of the best implementation, but maybe master-level villagers (who now fully "trust" you) are willing to get in a minecart or boat if you prompt them.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    First of all, I like that you are working on the Villagers. I like some of the changes. It is cool that there is now a difference between different kinds of Villagers. They should have little pros and cons.

    I don't like the librarian changes so much - at least not how they are right now. There could be a difference that Plains Villagers only sell Efficiency III or something (You'd have to redo the anvils of course) but still sell every book. 

    I don't know what to think about Meding tho. I like the enchant, it is really useful, but it's damn OP and so easy to aquire early game. You should make Mending exclusive for cured Zombie-Villagers that spawned naturally. Only they should sell Mending. If you do this, please make it way cheaper to fix your tools the classic way. Also, Mending should be more common in structures, that motivated people to explore they're world.

  • 4
    Registered User commented
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    This is terrible. So much for this being the game you can play any way you like. It's not a rebalance. It's a nerf. If players think villager trading is too OP they can just not do it instead of you gutting it for everyone. Some survival players don't want to spend all their time grinding, they want to set up the basics and then concentrate on grand builds. Having to round up all 7 biome villagers is a huge grind. I know because I did it for a build. but I did it late game, not because I was forced to so I could get all the enchants. You have triggered a wave of people building massive trading halls pre update. That alone should tell you how well it's being received. Even the most positive youtubers say things like "I think this update is needed but I am going to build a massive trading hall before they roll this out". How about removing the arbitrary cap on xp cost in the anvil? That is something I think everyone can get behind. The cartographer changes are good. Other than that it's just a big nerf. Two thumbs down.

  • 2
    Registered User commented
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    Some interesting ideas, with a few flaws.
    Cartographers are actually a great implementation in that they add new features, though does have the downside of now needing multiple of them and the lag that adds.  Would be good to see the map concept added to the wandering trader options for the trail ruins (i.e. they noticed one on their wanderings and figure it would be on interest to the player).

    The armourer needs more looking at however.
    While adding diamonds to the cost of armours is kinda nice but it forces players to continuously go mine for them (armour trims do what anyway).  Diamonds are finite. 
    I think a large cost of emeralds (say 50+) would cover this option especially when you consider the discounts for curing zombification on villagers is only going to be once now making emeralds harder to get in the large numbers (no 1 trivial item for 1 emerald trades anymore) that are gained now.

    mostly useles armourers:
    Savanna armourer having the curse on armours just makes them essentially a troll to players (especially newer players), its either buy unusable armour or armour you get stuck with.  Both bad options.
    Swamp/Jungle having chain-mail top trades makes them far inferior to any other villager.  Chain-mail armour (as it is currently) is terrible for a player to use, so making it the best a villager has to offer actually would give newer player the impression it is good armour, when iron is just better even compared to the basic enchants.

  • 7
    Registered User commented
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    村人をバイオームごとに分けてプレイヤーに旅をさせたいのと、ダイヤモンドの価値を高める意図は伝わりました。
    しかし私はこのアップデートに対してとても好意的ではありません。
    この要素を追加するなら私はマインクラフトを1.20.1以降、永遠にアップデートしないつもりです。最悪マインクラフトをプレイをやめることになるでしょう。

    村人の司書取り引きの弱体化、バイオームごとの取り引き、そしてダイヤモンド装備の取引の難易度上昇は、プレイヤーに冒険させたい、またダイヤモンドの取った時の喜びをより与えたい、エンチャント台の需要を高めたいためだか知らないですか、それはプレイヤーのためではなく、ただのバイオームやアップデート要素を見せるためのただの開発者のお節介やプレイヤーの嫌がらせ、迷惑行為にすぎません。
    プレイヤーに旅をさせることやダイヤモンドの需要の増加に関しては1.20の鍛治型の追加で十分だと思います。
    より強いモンスターが多くなり、その対策や建築の効率化に必要なエンチャントや防具の交易をより難しくするのは、古くから遊んでいるプレイヤーだけではなく、新規のプレイヤーにとって、苦痛だと思います。

    結論を申し上げますとこのアップデートを追加するくらいならアップデートしない方がまだいいですし、やめた方がいいと思います。いやしないでください。

  • 3
    Registered User commented
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    how about make a good update on end dimension instead? this thing is about to ruin minecraft community, especially for vanilla server in superflat or skyblock, thank you very much mojang :3

  • 20
    Registered User commented
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    so basically you've made armourer useless now, thanks a lot...

    and stop locking enchants behind biomes...

  • 4
    Registered User commented
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    Needing a few diamonds to buy diamond armor parts seems pretty acceptable in normal survival mode, but as others have pointed out, this causes problems in some popular non-standard games like sky block or super flat survival.
    And the biome differences don't look fun. It takes much more effort (exploring and leveling up villagers) and much less gain. In this case I would rather craft the armor parts not available for sale in the biome I settle in. And cursed armor sold by savannah villagers seem pretty unfair for players who want to settle in this biome. Cursed armor can't be re-enchanted with enchantment table, and players can't swap armor parts for specific uses or even just showing off their Minecraft skin to their friends. The "lower price" is next to worthless in the slightly longer run.

    And regarding the previous experimental change to librarian trades, the whole thing brings even worse effort and gain ratio.
    I think one simpler way to balance the overpowered trading is:
    1. Enchantment levels of books correspond to the level of villagers
    (Trade options of high level librarians will always be high level/rare and vice versa)
    2. The contents and prices of enchantment books change after every 3 trades or so.
    (Like, after buying 3 books of Mending, the option changes to book of Sharpness IV)
    This way there will not be permanently useful or useless librarian villagers, and it is always worthwhile to level up librarian villagers.

  • 11
    Registered User commented
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    I think the idea of having different trades in different biomes is good, however the process of transporting villagers over great distances is just not fun, its tedious and slow. Having a way to transport them easier like putting them on horses or llamas would make it much more fun.

  • 1
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    This is pretty cool, but I have a couple suggestions:

    First, there needs to be an easier way to transport villagers. With the cartographer, you could easily locate a swamp biome, for example, but if you wanted to bring villagers there, maybe to get a swamp villager, it would still be a hassle. I think it would be great if villagers followed the player if the player was holding an emerald, that way they could be transported thousands of blocks without needing to be put in a boat or something. This would probably still be balanced, because while the villager is following you, you would need to make sure it doesn’t get killed by a zombie or fall off a cliff or whatever.

    The second thing is that I think there should be a way to “convert” villagers. How I imagine this would work is, if you bring a random villager to a swamp biome, for example, and did something (I don’t know what yet) the villager would become a swamp villager, and thus offer mending books at master level if it’s a librarian, etc. this would make it so that after you bring villagers to a swamp, you don’t need to breed them to get a swamp villager.

    Otherwise these new changes are really interesting, keep up the great work mojang!

  • 2
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    I think that the chainmail trades for the jungle and swamp armourers need to be buffed. They are harder to come across because their villages need to be constructed artificially but they sell chainmail armour, which is worse than iron armour. This is particularly the case with the apprentice trades, since the prices are the same even though the armour has worse stats.

  • 8
    Registered User commented
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    The Cartographers changes are good, but I dont like the armorer and libarian nerfs.
    Heres why:
    + Its always good to have plus maps to explore and gain resources faster.
    - The diamond armor is not reliable.
    - If you travel a lot to get every book what you need, pls have max lvl enchantment!
    Thaks for reading my opinion! :)

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    In principle a good idea but there need to be mechanisms in end game which let you achieve end game similar behavior as today.
    E.g. for librarians: after you traded all types up to expert you receive an item which helps you lure/guide villagers to transport them easier to a central trading place. Or you can transport villagers easier (make them follow you) when you have hero of the village effect.
    Armorer: in end game would need some
    form of renewable diamonds.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I absolutely love the villager changes (including the librarian ones). All of it makes biome villages more interesting, make exploration more rewarding, gives real value back to diamonds, makes cartographers actually useful, gives a deeper sense of progression in the trading system, and creates gameplay incentive to make new decorative builds outside your base (the first time I can think of where there is any gameplay-related reason to build outside your base at all beyond a few farms). It enriches so many aspects of the game.

    I think it'll always be tough for players to adapt, we are all used to the OP trading system now. However, it has been common knowledge for a long time that it is incredibly OP and makes alternative ways to play the game totally obsolete (from my own experience and seeing how others play in SMPs).

    After testing, I see that the inheritance of the parents' biome still works as expected. That's good. It means a complete trading hall is still viable without manually transporting every single unique biome profession to it, but requires more effort as expected for how powerful it is.

    Overall, its a phenomenal job imo.

    Suggestions though: I think its also nice to consider superflat players. Perhaps a way to do this is to give a small chance (~5%?) that villagers breeding in the warped forest biome will produce babies of a random biome type (or some other rare biome, but warped forest sounds like a place weird things would happen to me).