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Let's talk about Villager Trading! - Librarian, Wondering Trader

The latest snapshot/preview includes experimental changes to the wandering trader and librarian trades, which we're introducing to rebalance the villager trade system. Here's a look at what's changed: 

Librarian

Before these changes, players could get any village enchantment from any librarian. A novice librarian could sell the best enchantment in the game! For some players, this felt too random and made trading feel overpowered when compared to using the enchanting table or searching for enchanted books in structures.

With the new rules, librarians from different biomes sell different enchantments, and each village biome has one enchantment that is only sold by master librarians.

Players will have to work towards getting the best trades instead of relying on random chance. We hope this makes librarian trading more interesting and skilful, while also revealing some clues about their history of each village type through the enchantments that are sold there.
 
Wandering Trader

Some players felt that the Wandering Trader had unfair prices and didn't sell many useful items. We have lowered their prices, added more trades and increased the amounts available. The Wandering Trader will also now buy useful items from players, so it's possible to help them on their journey by giving them supplies even if you don't feel like buying anything.

As this is an experiment, we would really appreciate your feedback as work continues and to help us decide on the future direction for villager trades!

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  • 1
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    This isn't good. Let me explain why and share my idea on how we should approach balancing

    Adding so much meaningless technicality to a system that is only broken for experienced players (those willing to go through all the effort to set up trading halls) punishes new or inexperienced players to the point where they might never have access to these enchantments. This is not just because of the lack of knowledge on how to obtain region-locked books, but also the lack of understanding on how to relocate villagers to biomes without villages.

    Furthermore, this change will not solve the problem; it will only make it harder and more tedious to achieve these enchantments. Those who currently "abuse" the system will still find a way to do so, even with a slightly higher cost. In fact, players who can set up the perfect trade hall (by "abusing" the system) are likely capable of creating something like a raid farm that provides them with thousands of emeralds.

    So instead, here is my solution for villager balancing:
    - Lock certain books like Mending behind a "quest" wall.
    For example, this could be that the player needs to optain a fairly rare or uncommon item that that specific villager requests. The player could then give them that item in exchange of unlocking that book (possibly for a limited time or untill out of stock/limit the stock more) This would make it harder while also giving new players a fun and clear objective to achieve their goal.
    Tweaks are possible if needed ofc.

  • 0
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    If this is going to be a thing, i have two suggestions:
    1. master villagers should sell max level trades. I use villagers to avoid having to combine books and hitting "Too Expensive!"
    2. If biome-specific villagers can ONLY sell things, they NEED to be able to be encountered in the course of normal gameplay. Otherwise, the only way players will be able to figure this out is by going to the wiki, and that's no fun.

    Also, while speaking in the minecraft discord, someone suggested that villagers might want books from *other biomes* or areas they might not be able to get on their own in trade. For example, to unlock a trade of Efficiency V they want a Swift Sneak or Soul Speed book, because they can't easily get that themselves!

  • 1
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    I have mixed feelings.   Yes, trading is completely OP.   But the change does not make the game more enjoyable.  The narrative of recent updates is not only exploring, but also allowing players to tell their own story.  This restricts how players tell that story.

    I like the variation to the wandering trader and think that should be expanded.   I have no problem with fixing the bug that allowed curing to stack.  I would be okay with changing the pricing of books to not have any books as cheap as they were.   

    The eliminating of so many max level enchantments and making some enchantments not available from trading will limit fun and story telling.   In SMPs, villager trading is done as a mechanism to limit the grind and improve entertainment / story telling.   I personally play with younger family members a lot.   If I must keep flying further to replace an enchantment because someone died, that is not fun for me or the kids who get less time to play and adventure together.  

    I think there needs to be a way to renewably still obtain all books that were available through trading.   If different biomes are needed, biome generation should make sure all biomes are available in a 5-10k radius.  I do not mind if buying the books is more expensive.   Perhaps a mechanism that would allow cloning books similar to smithing templates could work.   That would allow rare books to be preserved and copied while requiring initial exploration.  

  • 0
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    TLDR: THIS IS NOT FOR CASUAL PLAYERS!!

     

    The trend since 1.18 is to make the "minecraft" process longer, and this just takes the cake. First they drastically reduce diamond spawns + longer to mine deepslate + -64Y. Second, they nerf netherite, already a rare resource, to "increase diamond phase" (with what diamonds?), and make crafting netherite so expensive (duplicating templates) its just for end-end game as an achievement. Now they nerf villagers?? 

     

    Let's think long term impact since 1.18 starting with diamond gen. It's harder to get diamonds in general and became a mid-game accomplishment. With 1.20 they make netherite items cost the base diamond value + exploration time (which takes resources and an elytra realistically) + 6 more diamonds to duplicate each template. Making netherite stupid hard to justify, and most prefer netherite to fight the end dragon in hardcore, which they realistically aren't going to obtain now due to the amount of travel + luck on a template. 

    Say this villager change is 1.21, now in order to move all your villagers, you basically need netherite tools for materials + durability, but in order to get materials + durability, you need the villagers? Also, hello spawn gen?? Sometimes a jungle biome is 5000+ blocks away, and this would prob be w/o elytra since you use elytra w/ mend + unbreaking 3. So you're also walking this distance, with inventory issues, with villagers, and unenchanted diamond tools that are impossible to get and now need many of???

  • 59
    Registered User commented
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    I think the original was better my reasoning for this is it makes more sense to most players and would make creating a large amount of enchanted armor more tedious especially for large multiplayer servers i hope you take this feedback into consideration before yoh make your next decision

  • 84
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    I don't like this new villager trading system, if you add this 100% make it an optional gamerule and not a forced gameplay feature

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Some issues:

    • Villagers are currently not intended to be moved around, so locking certain items to places where they do not naturally spawn means that players are forced to transport villagers using an intentional lack of methods to do so
    • This feature is not intuitive at all especially due to the lack of natural swamp and jungle villages as well as its exclusivity to librarians
    • The lower tiers of enchanted book will force players to use absurd amounts of levels only obtainable through unintentional farms to combine books
    • Extra book combining will also lead players to the "Too Expensive!" anvil level limit, a feature that serves no purpose other than to highlight the games need for a rework of the anvil and its 'anvil uses' system

    Suggestions

    • Villager happiness system - Currently the best way to use villagers is to put them in a 1x1 hole for eternity, but a happiness system would maybe encourage adapting to natural villages
    • Villager movement items - There is currently no reliable way to move villagers by design, which contradicts the new jungle and swamp trades (please update minecarts they are outclassed by any other form of transport)
    • Natural swamp/jungle villages - Could also solve the movement issue but remove the challenge of building a new village
    • Some sort of in-game tutorial/explanation for these features similar to the curing igloo
    • Anvil rework - The anvil uses system is unnecessary and takes away from the fun of combining books

    TLDR: These changes do not 'fix' villagers!

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    All I have to say is that most players play the game to unleash creativity and make artwork. Making these changes to villagers just forces one to spend more time on something the game is not about at its base. Why can't we just let it be as it already is and let the player decide if they want to use these features of the game or not?

  • 76
    Registered User commented
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    Just came to voice my disapproval of it! Take care everyone.

  • 83
    Registered User commented
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    Even as it was, getting the villagers to trade for the enchantments you want was already extremely grindy. This change is awful, please keep them as they were before, this just makes the game unnecessarily grindier. 

  • 0
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    I personally don't like the librarian changes, I think getting rid of some enchantments from the villages is fine, but the biome specific books will get tedious quickly, especially having mending, one of the most important enchantments in the game, in such an awkward biome that not many players will have nearby. Also, if these changes go ahead, we need the removal of the "too expensive" prompt on anvils. Making things that require a lot of enchantments, like boots, are annoying to max out with the prompt even now, making these new changes will make it even worse. I think the wandering villager changes are good though, and gives a use to an otherwise useless villager.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    The wandering trader is very usefully and a keep but, do NOT change the villager as a whole. This will not only be very annoying but harmfully to the game, It already has lag issues has it is. 

  • 60
    Registered User commented
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    There is nothing redeeming about this change. It just makes the game worse. Just like so many other things that have happened to the game since microsoft got its grubby mits on it.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    This sounds like a good idea in thought but within terms of execution, it is really annoying, here's an idea, instead of making it biome exclusive, make it so they're rarer in the regular biomes and easier to find in said biomes on the spreadsheet (or just don't implement the features because villagers are already annoying to transport as is)

  • 0
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    1. Having the "high-teir" books locked out until master level - not an issue, like that they are essentially guaranteed and not random
    2. Having to get villagers from every biome (with two villages that don't actually exist) is an unnecessary grind on top of a lot of existing grinding. I'm pretty sure I'm between 3-4 thousand blocks away from the last biome and the others spread across that range (100's of blocks apart).  That's a lot of time spent in finding the biomes, transporting villagers (because that's fun) and breeding them (because that's also fun).
    3. I feel, as a casual player, I'm been punished.  I started playing with my daughter on a new survival world some months ago and am only now getting to the point of villager breeding and building a "trading hall".  This change is going to add months more "grinding" game play - not enjoyable - I'd prefer to be building up our base, collecting resources for that instead.

    Does enchanting need some balance work?  Probably, but I'd argue that the anvil mechanics are unnecessary complicated - so if I'm now going to need to combine books (good luck on new players been able to figure that out), I'd like to see that mechanic overhauled (get rid of "anvil-use") - otherwise I'm onto another grid of having to get more XP ... instead of, I don't know, exploring, resource gathering and building - anything which allows me to track faster to those goals is welcome.

    I just feel I'm been punished

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Just give people the option to turn something like this on or off via a command or setting some where.  Seems like everyone would be happy then.  This game has always been about giving people choices, this should be no different.  People that want more of a challenge can play with it on.  People who'd prefer a less tedious method can do without it then.  

    If this is really here to stay, I think there needs to be a better way of transporting villagers.  Right now it is a nightmare.  

    Seemingly the goal of this is to get people exploring the world which I get, but at the same time... there are many players who do not want to travel thousands of blocks for something that was previously still grindy but much more attainable.  

    Additionally, the thought of having to build a new village will go right over a new players head.  I've been playing this game for 10 years and I still don't know the exact ins and outs regarding what counts as a village and what doesn't.  

  • 1
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    The villager change would be game killing for me. I generally play with several people and we don't all have the best computers. The game already lags if too much exploration happens.  It is already difficult to find deserts near snow biomes. Making exploration pretty much obligatory would make the game more tedious and unplayable. Villagers are already annoying and adding this would just make them worse. I understand that they are considered overpowered but are they really? It takes a bunch of time to set up a hall. I would only set one up if I'm going to be playing on a server for long time because of the difficulties with moving villagers as is. If it was to be added I think it should be optional. Kind of like fire tick or bonus chest. It should also be opt in so that it is not interfering with new players. The wandering trader upgrade is great.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    While current villager trading is overpowered, locking the best enchantments behind different biomes just makes getting everything you need to properly enjoy the end game more tedious. Two of the biomes don't have naturally generating villages and moving villagers is already a massive pain. combining this with the master level trades not being the highest tier makes for an annoying and grindy task, instead of one that is intuitive and dynamic. This is a game about creating and building out your own world and locking the tools to do that easier behind harder and more confusing mechanics won't make anyone happy.

  • 83
    Registered User commented
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    Leave the villagers alone! Villagers are already annoying enough. Setting up a breeder, and corralling them all in one place was already challenging enough. Now you expect us to cart them into all sorts of biomes to obtain the right enchants, and then max leveling them in an area where you likely don't have any infrastructure! To top it all off, this doesn't even give max enchants.

    Leave the villagers ALONE!

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    Personally I don't like these changes but i see that Villager trading how it is is to strong so im fine with the idea of making trades biomedepended but in my opinion it should still be possible to aquire each tier of an enchant from trading
    Example:
    at the point im writing this i can only get an efficiency 3 book from an master libaryen in the desert which im fine with but no efficency 1,2,4 or 5 which in my opinion should be possible, too - it doesn't need to be a 100% chance but a chance.

    -> Maybe decressing the chance of getting certin books in all biomes insted of only beeing able to obtain them in one would be better.

    Edit: Giving Biomespecific trades to Jungle/Swamp Villagers without having a Jungle/Swamp Village er something compareable is just pure pain for the player to get a Jungle/Swamp Villager.

  • 64
    Registered User commented
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    Building a good trading hall already takes ages so I don't see the reason to make it more annoying and take longer when it already takes a very long time and is very annoying until its done. If you want to rescale it, you should make the better things rarer to get as a trade.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    This sucks don't do it😭Everyone I know including myself said they would stop playing if this is implemented

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    not sure if this is the right place to post or if it's a duplicate, but a related idea to solve the same issue while also encouraging exploring the world would be to give librarians a master level trade of being able to duplicate any enchanted book (input the book and a certain amt of emeralds, then get the book from the output slot but don't consume the book in the input slot)

    which forces players to get enchantments from using enchanting tables/chest loot instead of just villagers, still keeps villagers useful especially when duplicating treasure enchants, and makes books like swift sneak renewable while also still making players explore to get them

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    This is a very good change to balance the game and bring more use to the enchantment table, although it would be good if the master level enchants had a chance to be max, like a 25% chance of getting unbreaking 3 instead of 2.

     

    Also it would be really cool if bringing a zombie villager to a deep dark and curing it there it would be able to sell swift sneak, as it is the only non-renewable enchantment, and on popular servers all ancient city's are looted it really hard to get. And it could possibly be added for a deep dark dimension (if added) to bring the villager to the dimension (if it gets added). And it could even have an achievement. 

     

    Thanks for taking feedback, keep it up mojang! (buff minecarts)

  • 1
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    I prefer all my trading hall villagers to have all the same uniform, and to match the color scheme of the design.  Please don't tell me HOW to play by FORCING me to explore.

     

    The wandering trader needs more unique and rare items.  Stop with the garbage.  Sponges, coral, higher chance of nautilus shells, always has saplings.  For people who do not want to explore and just want to build, giving them 8 logs is not useful in any situation.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    For me, This update will make it difficult for me as a superflat player. This will be difficult for me because the world superflat has no biomes. Also, this makes us unable to change the price to 1 emerald which will be difficult for us superflat players .

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I could see the nerf to librarian trading being effective, but only if it were paired with a buff that would give you more ways to get enchantments onto your diamond gear.

    If you gave a way to move enchantments from one tool to another, or from a tool to a book then nerfing villager trading might help incentivise more exploration. As it stands, however, it just means you are going to have to take longer to get the same result.

    I am not a fan of the increased experience cost for combining books.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    This feels like a step backwards. You're choosing to spend development time on this instead of an inventory update?

    Minecraft is an incredibly freeing game, and this just feels like the developers trying to control people into playing how THEY think it should be played. If people think villagers are overpowered, just don't use them. I like the tools they give because I'm pretty late game and I don't like wasting time getting these tools in other ways when I'm working on large scale projects. You're not making a better system with these changes, you're just reducing the usefulness of something that people have been using for a long time.

    I know you're trying to make things more interesting with the traveling, but it'll most likely hurt the casual player. I use a biome finder tool because I don't like searching for a biome, but the casual player may have to go tens of thousands of blocks away in a direction they're not even sure of to (maybe) find what they're looking for.

    Village mechanics and villages in general should be made more interesting and updated, but I don't think reducing the villagers like this will help.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    This change seems to be an attempt to gate max-level enchants behind actual gameplay systems like exploration or villager leveling as opposed to behind IRL time spent breaking and re-placing lecterns. While the intention is laudable, several frustrating aspects of librarian trading remain unaddressed:

    • Villager transportation options are still inadequate
    • Librarian GUIs are still cluttered with useless books, spaced apart from each other in the list
    • It's necessary (even more so than before) to use anvils for max-level enchants

    To solve this, I propose a radical shift in the approach to villager trading. Villagers which haven't yet been traded with will have a "trade seed", meaning their Novice-level trading offers for a particular profession are determined at spawn time. Every Novice-level trading slot will contain a villager's most valuable offers, and higher-level trades will be more niche. For example, a fletcher might have 3 Novice slots for buying sticks and selling regular/enchanted arrows, while a mason might have 6 slots for 3 regular and 3 glazed terracotta. Librarians will have 2 Novice slots for enchanted books. Trade offers for Novice slots will scale with the villager's level- this affects the amount of items bought and sold and the level of any enchantments on sold books/gear. Novices will sell level 1 enchants, and Masters max level enchants.

    Try this first, and only if it insufficiently gates powerful enchants should you also implement biome-specific enchant offers.

  • 22
    Registered User commented
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    If the rest of the changes stay, the special enchantments at max trading level need to be the highest level for the enchant. It's one thing for villager setups to be a bit more work, but they shouldn't be tedious to utilize once set up.