The latest snapshot/preview includes experimental changes to the wandering trader and librarian trades, which we're introducing to rebalance the villager trade system. Here's a look at what's changed:
Librarian
Before these changes, players could get any village enchantment from any librarian. A novice librarian could sell the best enchantment in the game! For some players, this felt too random and made trading feel overpowered when compared to using the enchanting table or searching for enchanted books in structures.
With the new rules, librarians from different biomes sell different enchantments, and each village biome has one enchantment that is only sold by master librarians.
Players will have to work towards getting the best trades instead of relying on random chance. We hope this makes librarian trading more interesting and skilful, while also revealing some clues about their history of each village type through the enchantments that are sold there.
Wandering Trader
Some players felt that the Wandering Trader had unfair prices and didn't sell many useful items. We have lowered their prices, added more trades and increased the amounts available. The Wandering Trader will also now buy useful items from players, so it's possible to help them on their journey by giving them supplies even if you don't feel like buying anything.
As this is an experiment, we would really appreciate your feedback as work continues and to help us decide on the future direction for villager trades!
Post is closed for comments.
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I actually like the changes quite a lot!
I often found villagers to be too overpowered and when playing with my friends I found myself having to use villagers to keep up with them when I much prefer using enchanting tables. I also think the wandering trader change is quite good because although I liked how it was before, the new changes are a welcome addition!
I think the librarian Nerf is a fantastic change! Librarians have been way too overpowered for too long. I don't think interacting with villagers is fun enough to justify how useful they were. This will revitalize the enchanting table which I think is great! I like that the trades will now be locked in which means no more breaking and replacing lecterns over and over again. I think having the two best trades be from the villageless villagers is a great placement.
While we're on the topic of villagers I think it would be a great shift if golden carrots and pumpkin pie see an increase in price or elimination from available trades. I also think the stone and stick trades for emeralds are unbalanced. I also think the final armorer, weaponsmith, and toolsmith should see an increase in prices for final trades.
Ideally, I think villagers should never be the best option for gathering items and resources. It discourages players from coming up with creative solutions to farm or collect the items and resources. Minecraft is a sandbox game, so ideally, it shouldn't be linear.
I'd also like to see a Nerf in Raid Farms if possible.
I think with this shift, we should ideally see a buff in villager transportation. I don't think it should be as easy as picking them up or leading them. I think a creative and fun new mechanic for transporting villagers would be widely accepted by the Minecraft community. Maybe they could ride on the camel?
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I feel like the game will become more unnecessary grindy, cause now not only do I have to travel a lot farther to find the right villager, I have to find in all these different biomes and just the thought of getting each and every one to have a basic trading hall is exhausting as it is.
and what about people with extended biomes or super-flat?
If the transportation methods (boat/ minecart) were better then I might consider it, but as of right now it just feels like a terrible patch to a problem we didn't even have.The good:
- Villagers having specific trades according to their biomes.
- Wandering traders becoming more usefull.
The bad:
- Villagers not having all possible enchantments. On multiplayer servers it's already really annoying to get the exclusive treasure enchantment books and balloons the world size due to people having to search for hundrets of thousands of blocks. If you want to make such a change, you got to overhaul the enchantment system, to get specific enchants on the table easier. Making things more annoying is never the right answer.
- Having some enchanted books not be able to be top-level makes them pretty much useless, as combining books raises the level-requirement drastically. If you want to make this change, you have to remove the "Too expensive"-limit on the anvil. Just let players spend a 100 levels if they want to.
- Wandering traders are still pretty useless. With their limited trades and sparse appearence they should trade some great stuff. So your instinct to give them more trades was correct, but you didn't go far enough, by a mile.
Not a good idea! Leave the villagers alone and focus on new content!
Make the biome specific librarian trades a gamerule; moving villagers is hard enough! other than that, this is reasonable.
These are some bad proposals.
Some suggestions to improve them:
The librarian random enchantments at novice level does feel over empowered, but we would want to know what the expert trades would be if we decide to invest in them becoming master class. For example the novice level enchantment would be efficiency III, but the master class must be efficiency V.
Having biome specific enchantments creates some difficulties in the game. At this time I have not encountered a single jungle dependent village. This is because the villager buildings can not grow inside the jungle.
The wandering villager should be improved upon. Currently, we are having problems obtaining nautilus shells from the drowned zombies. The wandering villager is our biggest incentive to shoring up weak supply chains like the nautilus shell.
-LithiumFire03
The idea of rebalancing the villagers is very interesting and some aspects cannot be ignored.
Things I believe would benefit overall:
Having different biome villagers is a very good idea, it increases exploration and more bases and whatnot
Getting rid of the repeated zombie curing is also good, that's been breaking the game for too long
Things that are not a benefit
Getting rid of some enchantments
Making the special enchantment not the highest(for example you cannot get sharpness 5 anymore you can only get sharpness 3)The reason that this isn't good is that people have been already depending on this for YEARS, this basically prevents 'god armor' from appearing. While I do appreciate that these new mechanics would encourage use of the enchantment table, it'll just end up killing the game. It's very difficult to use other mechanics because it is much more left up to RNG and most players wont sit around and deal with that. Also I do not believe god armor is very game breaking as god armor allows the player to create bigger and more detailed creations. Without access to these enchantments, survival megabuilds will significantly decrease. Also less and less new worlds will be created cause people will just stick with their pre existing villagers and not venture out to start new worlds due to these changes.
Apologies for poor grammar or other mistakes, just wanted to get my thoughts written down somewhere.I do agree that Villagers need a fix so that minecrafters aren't enforcing casual slavery, but I do not think it should be done like this.
Dealing with villagers is already a pain, this would increase it tenfold. I play Minecraft to build and relax. The grindy part of the game really kills my enjoyment because somethings take so much effort to acquire. This change would make most things difficult to acquire.
I recently started a new world with my friends and I tried to not do the usual straight to full enchanted diamond. I tried building all of my starter farms/house with basic tools with little to no enchants. It was annoying and really bummed me out from playing the game. I maybe lasted a week or so of gameplay before starting to build a trading hall because I like being actually able to get fun materials to build things; Not just cobblestone and planks.
This feels like an awful change that makes the blessing that villager trades were for getting good gear, so that you can actually play the sandbox games, a tedious pain to deal with.
If you want to incentivize players to explore more, than make things to explore. Don't change an existing mechanic to make the early/mid game even more punishing.I love this idea. The current design of villager trading has been proven to be incredibly flawed.
However, as any Minecraft feature, I believe this rebalance should be carefully integrated with the rest of the game, by making changes to any related mechanics.
These are some things I feel should be addressed:
- Making book trading controllable is great. However, I think it shouldn't become entirely deterministic (it's boring). I'd prefer if librarians still had some small variance (personality), and could give you books, either from other biomes (maybe only some), or with higher levels, with a small, yet reasonable, chance
- We need more natural ways to guide villagers around. It'd be great if there was a way to invite them to mount a llama caravan to guide them across land. The new camels are also a great opportunity to introduce a feature to invite villagers to ride them with you. Maybe a component of trust should be necessary (wandering trader story arc?)
- We should punish inhumane villager trading halls. Villagers should be very unhappy to be trapped in small holes for their entire life, but we still need a way to find villagers fast. My proposal is adding a feature so we can call villagers to their individual work stations if they're close by, and making prices higher and/or restocks scarcer if they're prisoners
- The anvil limit should be reconsidered. It's also unfriendly to new players how the order affects the cost
Villagers deserve more human personality and interactions <3
Remove anvil cap or make it cheaper! I agree that villagers are too OP but they are required to make "perfect" items. Namely, silk touch, unbreaking, and mending are villagers that i have in every world even though i primarily use the enchanting table. With the level downgrade, combining enchants is too expensive
Does this mean that if I get, say, a Swamp librarian, I'm guaranteed to get a Mending book as their last trade once I get 'em all leveled up? I'm all for that! SO much less annoying than breaking and replacing a lectern over and over until the right trade pops up. Might be a bit tricky to get a swamp villager, but Nether tunneling does exist for mob transport. And the bit of lore contained in the trades is kinda cool.
I also like the wandering traders buying things, and I like what they buy. Both because those are things that can be somewhat easily obtained to give them for emeralds if no villagers are available, and because those seem like things wandering traders would want.
Players need to put in the effort to create an environment in which they can trade with villagers and actually do so, but the price for doing so is too low. I would like to see a commitment to maximum level enchantment.
Not everyone is an explorer. You have already added the trims and ruins, so people who want to explore can do so. Some people just want to build a village or city in a particular place. Make the high power books only available to Master level librarians, if you must, but making us trek thousands of blocks 1st is just making things difficult, for the sake of it. Also, feel free to stop the multi zombification too. Who really cares what is OP or not OP. If everyone has the same options then nothing is really OP at all. And for those who think it is OP, just limit yourself and choose not to use villager trading. Making things more difficult and tedious, for the sake of it, is not going to make the game more fun. I'd rather you just let us have a way to sit, in the game, without having to use a boat or minecarts.
I think this is a great start, and I hope to see the introduction of Swamp and Jungle villages as well!
I would suggest adding a mechanic to villagers for "comfort". I have only seen one mod do this, but it really adds to the gameplay in a natural way. Essentially, prices will be higher if they are uncomfortable and lower if you tidy up the village. Things like pathing to beds and job blocks, having outdoor space available, how much room in a home, etc. This can also nerf raid/golem farms by setting raids and golems to only spawn at a certain comfort level.
This villager adjustment is an absolute disaster and I beg of you to forget mentioning any of it.
There’s a whole heap of reasons for this. Firstly, this isn’t even a proper adjustment to the system. All this “reform” does is introduce multiple annoying barriers that serve absolutely no purpose other than wasting a players time. The system we have already is so laborious and exhausting, but is just worth the effort. This new system is a thousand times more tedious for a significantly worse return, this isn’t fixing a system, this is ruining it, no one will even want to trade with librarians in this state.
Second, the anvil. This will obviously force reliance on the anvil to get hire levels on things. Here’s the thing: players HATE the anvil. It’s super expensive, half the time it decides to just straight up tell you “no, you cannot have efficiency 5 on this pickaxe with fortune 3, unbreaking 3, and mending, too much” this is forcing us to deal with a system we already don’t like and actively avoid at all costs. So not only will this new villager system be hated, it will cascade into dredging up further despoliation on other short ended mechanics, that’s not good at all.
Third, WHY? Minecraft is an open world game, who cares even if this was overpowered, which it isn’t, because players aren’t doing this first thing, it takes forever, and is only worth it for endgame equipment. Why restrict a players options for having fun in an open world game?
PLEASE. Do not add this.
I don't like the new system either. It would mean that we the players have to walk several 1000 blocks just to get a book.
I suggest, because some like the new system, to let the players decide which system to use in world generation. We have the option to generate worlds with only large or with small biomes, or even only flat worlds. So why not offer an option where players can decide whether they want to play with the old current system or with the new system. I think that would be a way to make both sides happy.I'm Japanese and nobody is happy about this update among the Japanese community at least from what I've seen. The ongoing librarian system that any enchantment books can be randomly chosen is called "Gacha" in the Japanese community and many of them have loved it. I'm personally neutral to that system, but even, I still believe removing a certain system that is already familiar and beloved is not a valid strategy. That system is said "too easy, players need to work harder to get what they want" but these Japanese players claim the ongoing system is NOT as easy as you assume, it's hard enough to set the perfect environment for it. And if you want to destroy it without good relief measures, it's just catastrophic and mean to the players.
If we are doing this, maybe lift the anvil experience limit.
add villages for jungle and swamp.
Response to proposed villager trade changes: NO! Those changes sound like they are designed to satisfy a very small percentage of players. Nothing forces the player to re-roll librarians If you don't like doing that, don't do it. Please leave the system as it is, or at most, weight the rolls to favor lesser enchants but still have everything available. If you really want to have these changes in the game, let them be toggled on in the world creation settings and leave what we have now as default. Anyone who would actually want these changes would know how to check this setting when starting a new world.
The proposed changes make a tedious process even more tedious and less fun. Why would you want your game to be less fun?The librarian rules should be left now it is now, they have no reason to be biome specific. It’s a good idea in theory but in reality doesn’t make it any harder to obtain, just makes it unfair as if we don’t have a swamp within 1000 blocks or more how are we meant to get them whereas people that spawn in swamps are at an immediate advantage and the same goes for all of them. We need a better way to move villagers if this idea is to be continued. Please please leave trading be. I think the curing changes are a step in the right direction however only allowing one cure isn’t quite it. Maybe keep the first cure as it is and make all following ones add less and less score so it takes maybe 10 cures to get max trades. The people that love villagers will be dissapointed and a lot will give up playing (me included). And the people that don’t use villagers won’t gain nor lose from this. As for the wandering trader I think that’s an amazing change, it adds a sense of adventure and really adds to the lore. They become a mob i for one grow to love. TLDR: More wandering trader changes, no librarian changes please :)
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I think this update is great in concept, however if it becomes the norm? The Anvil level costs need remodifying as by having lower enchants from villagers the cost will rise to combine enchantments on books and armour, thus leading to the 'Too Expensive' message appearing sooner than they do in 1.20 currently. Personally I would suggest either raising the 'Too Expensive' cost by a large amount of levels or make it so that combining books doesn't raise the cost of further enchants using them. Also super-flat worlds will need to have another way to change the villagers biomes/trades. Maybe by adding an item sold by the wandering trader like a 'Swamp Librarian License' or something similar. This could then be used on a Lectern to change the trades of the assigned villager to that biome?
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I believe that the idea of rebalancing the librarians is a good change, but the change provided in the 23W31A snapshot is just not it. It seems overly grindy. If I had the chance to make changes to the villagers, I would propose something along these lines:
Instead of having biome-specific villagers, a system of RNG-specific villagers could be implemented. Whenever villagers spawn in a Minecraft world, they would receive a tag that determines the type of librarian they could potentially become. Each librarian type would be linked to a distinct set of books. This approach eliminates the need to spend countless hours searching for a biome, and not all librarians would have access to every book type. This modification eliminates the tedium of repeatedly relocating and repositioning lecterns in order to attain the desired trade. Additionally, all trades offered by these villagers would not be at their maximum level; they would consistently be 1 or 2 levels below the highest available book levels. (this is not really balanced but a step in the right direction)
Once you have librarians at the master level, they would gain the ability to "learn" trades. If a player discovers a specific book (e.g., Efficiency 5) within the game world and brings it back to their village, they could utilize that book to "teach" a master librarian that particular trade. This action would consume the book, thus preventing immediate access to the best enchantments during the early stages of the game.
I strongly oppose. If this experimental changes is reflected in official version, I'll never update.
The thing I enjoy most about Minecraft is building trading hall. It's already hard enough. The effort and the rewards have been balanced.
I can't build a railroad of unimaginable length. Only a few incredibly patient advanced player can endure such tedious work.
I understand you want us to go on journey. But without the current villagers, I'll die as soon as I set out. I'm not good at combat. I can't go on a journey unless I'm fully prepared with their help.
I sometimes die and lose my items. Yet I'm willing to go on a journey again because villagers help me. Otherwise, I'll break my heart and never open that data again.
Do you need to exclude users who don't go on journey? Enchanted tools are also needed to build lots of houses. Does that mean users who want to build a big city should only play in Creative mode? Are you saying pastoral users should not play Survival mode?
I like multiplayer where a player returning from a journey is surprised to see a well-developed base, or a player building in a base is surprised to see what the adventurers have brought back. It shouldn't be necessary for everyone to be an adventurer.
1.20 were great. I went on an adventure to see cherry blossoms, camels, and more. But there's nothing exciting about this experiment. It's one thing to add a fun element to a journey, and another to add restrictions that make we lose out if we don't go on a journey.
I think it is a good idea but this would make it harder to enchant without getting the "too expensive" text. My idea is that make it so instead of efficiency 3 and sharpness 3 make it the second highest level of enchant also make it an option to turn this on or off.
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The Wandering Traders prices are good, nobody wants to pay more than an emerald for a flower. I think the Trader should buy more common blocks like Dirt, Stone, Deepslate, Netherrack, etc. Items you would collect massive amounts over time and start cluttering your storages.
However, the Librarian changes MUST be rethought or scrapped entirely. This is a terrible idea, it isn't fixing anything, it's applying a Band-aid solution.
Mojang isn't looking at WHY players need to abuse Librarian trades to get enchantments. Perhaps they could start looking into what could be done with the Enchanting table and/or Anvil to entice players to use those methods instead.
Villager curing made absolute sense, Villagers would increasingly be gratuitous toward you for curing them, like you're the village doctor in way. The Jarls of ancient Viking Clans would take their Seer's word over their own. Doctors were very significant to their village's prosperity.
So all in all, maybe even increasing the chance of enchanted books spawning in structures will entice players to explore theirs worlds more. I hope Mojang will rethink their ideas!
Overall, this change is not a change that strikes me as pleasant.
Unpleasant is an opinion I have rarely been left with in the years I've played Minecraft.I can wholeheartedly agree with the "tedium" expressed by other comments.
I don't necessarily think that these changes to villager trading mechanics will solve that issue.
I also don't believe that a little "OP" for builds that require many hours of work to build and establish is an excessive benefit; I would want a return on my investment.I consider myself a casual player, and don't have time to travel thousands of blocks from base and back or risk getting lost when coming back to the game a few days later.
With little free time to invest into my Minecraft world, any change that seems designed to suck up that time is inherently frustrating.There are work-arounds, the "cheats" screen to record positions, or third-party applications to locate biomes, but these methods greatly detract from the gameplay, sense of accomplishment, and enjoyment I find within Minecraft.
These changes, as is, do not appear to be a return on my investment of time.
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If insistent upon refurbishing the Villager Trading mechanics, I strongly suggest using other game mechanics that have been around, or are more recently added, to expand the game, instead of just "nerfing" the current schema.
There's potential, but it feels like players are being forced to play a different way. I personally like to make huge bases. This is already grindy with how slow deepslate is even maxed out, and adding this mechanic will make it more frustrating just to get the tools I need.
The enchantment table will help, but even max level enchants on it aren't guaranteed and there's no way of making sure all the enchantments you get are the ones you want. On top of that the anvil system already makes things like fully enchanted boots difficult or impossible if not done in a specific way. Combining books will make it harder to avoid that too expensive message, so unless there is an overhaul of enchanting I don't see this going well.
The current villagers seem overpowered yes, but they only get that way through hours of work to set up a trading hall. I can agree with not letting players repeatedly cure the same villager for lower pricing, but it takes a lot of time and effort to get specific librarians. They're mainly OP because some villagers buy one of what others sell, like glass into panes.
There's also the chance the biomes we would need for specific enchantments will be 1000s of blocks away, which still will take a long time to get to even through the nether. This all takes time that I could be using to do what I actually want to do. It feels like a chore since it's no fun to explore if I HAVE to vs choose to take a break building, which is already a problem if I want froglights.
This change "balances" a system that doesn't need it for most players. Current librarian use isn't something that is too easy. Its time consuming to get desired trades, make trading halls, and needs many resources in potions and gapples. The change makes it more tedious and time consuming and makes much of it pointless as max enchants aren't offered for many books. Casual players don't have time to spare on enchanting and the update places more time burden on them. Players want to spend their limited time on enjoyable aspects like building or exploring without being forced. This feature forces players to explore as an errand rather than out of desire to. It doesn't add fun to enchanting as its still tedious and something many players wanna be over with fast regardless of lore or skill placed behind it. As an alternative, librarians should continue offering every book but with higher chances of some books in diff biomes. Instead of getting rid of trident, fishingrod and crossbow enchants, make them available from fletcher or fisherman to encourage the use of less used villagers and place less importance on librarians. Please offer max enchant level of enchants, especially for vital enchants like efficiency or unbreaking. Consider buffing enchant tables instead of nerfing vital game play mechanics many players use to play the game as they enjoy. Remember this is a sandbox players shouldn't be forced to play specific ways to be able to comfortably do what they really want to do.
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