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Deep Dark Experimental Snapshot Feedback

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    I think swift sneak should be a leggings enchantment because there are already so many boot enchantments and it would be really cool to have a leggings exclusive enchantment.

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    I think the warden gets trapped too easily on just blocks in the cave and it should do a bit more damage 

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    Sprint sneak on leggings pls.

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    Have the Warden climb walls, have lava resistance, swim, shoot projectiles and go through smaller places. He seems to be very easy to defeat. Give the Warden the regenerative ability.
    Also, cities are generating several wardens... Which in my opinion, doesn't make any sense... Only one Warden should be generated per city... Instead of being any mobs, it should be. Warden needs to be unique!
    And how about adding more of the deep darkness? Like a grass or sculk mushroom? Maybe even, leaving the ancient city with a city aspect... A city with houses and that really seemed to be a civilization.

    Give the Warden a regenerative ability. And how about adding more of the deep darkness? Like a grass or sculk mushroom?

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    The Warden encounters were amazing(ly terrifying) but I feel that they should be much more dangerous. Only one Warden will spawn in a certain area as of now, but perhaps a Warden should spawn for each Sculk Shrieker that has been activated.
    What I mean by that is, if, say, 4 shriekers are triggered three times, then 4 Wardens will spawn. It makes these encounters much more dangerous, and makes sure players should be extra careful when traversing the Deep Dark.

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    I played for a short time, inserting myself into an ancient city with my usual survival loadout and this is what I thought of the experience:

    • All of the times I encountered the warden I retreated onto the city walkways, where the warden was still able to smell and track me with ease, but couldn't reach me at all. This felt unintentional, and I think the solution has to do with the warden being able to reach more locations. Outside of cheesing it, however, an encounter seems to be essentially a death sentence.
    • I was sort of able to sneak around the warden, but I think that it had a lot to do with its inability to reach me. I didn't really attempt to slowly walk away from it or anything like that, because I always had a lot of time between the shrieker going off and the emergence of the warden in which I could run away
    • Looting chests might be easier if wool occlusion were more obvious a mechanic -- specifically the blocking feature. Also, is it clear that you can walk on the paths? maybe new players will just experiment enough to notice idk.
    • The darkness effect is perfect, 10/10. uncomfortable and makes you look very closely at the screen.
    • Personally I wasn't like "scared" but I imagine if I didn't know what to expect or if there were any survival-world-type stakes involved I would've been more afraid.

     

  • 0
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    The Ancient city is honesty underwhelming and I think needs a complete rework. The style of ruined or damaged ancient cities hasn't evolved since old school nether fortresses or jungle temples. It feels repetitive and annoying to have some small bits of loot and to the advanced player it is almost useless without its skulk blocks to do Redstone with. Even if part of the cities can be used mechanically for very advanced players I think that, the part that is advanced should stay(skulk sensors blast resistant blocks exp farms.) In the Minecraft live for 2020 the showcase of the deep dark seemed to be more lowkey and something you could stumble on to and be in serious trouble. You would have to play smart to avoid and could be very scary and stressful. These small patches of deep dark not connected to the city are easy to avoid and create no emotion. The cities themselves are optional and very lackluster visually and I would swap them out for something like a large valley encased in dripstone that at the center holds loot but almost guaranties death very close to the bottom and hard to dig around(unbreakable or slow breaking blocks) as well as some narrow caves that are smaller versions more based on the fact that you would never go there on purpose. Last is that the warden needs to be useful in someway nothing too important that you almost cannot live without it like elytra but something fun and fresh because lately it seems like mob drops have been really boring and useless.

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    -The Warden was basically impossible to face head-on, I liked that. Unfortunately, towering up 4 blocks was a very easy way to prevent it from attacking you, I hope this is fixed. Besides this, the Warden is very scary, it took me a while to figure out how to stay undetected.

    -On a more complex level, I found the architecture of Ancient cities made it somewhat easy to escape the Warden, it has lot's of walls and small spaces, so it's very easy for the player to hide or escape from the Warden thanks to the Ancient cities. The Warden should be in an environment where it can freely move around and catch the player easily.

    -I was able to loot the Ancient cities without being killed with the Warden, but I was definitely disrupted by it's appearances. The Ancient cities themselves unfortunately feel a little too easy to loot. All the chests are visible and the structure overall feels somewhat linear and easy to navigate. I enjoyed Bastion Remnants because to this day I still struggle to find all the loot, there are hidden rooms and lot's of variety. I wish the structure had more variety in the kinds of rooms/ruins we will see, more variety in size and shape, perhaps hidden passageways and chests which are harder to find, a structure that is overall more difficult and complex to navigate and perhaps more detail and references. I really liked the bathhouse remains for example. As it's a late game structure and very old, i want it to be packed with detail and secrets!

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    I think that the darkness effect of the warden was awesome and very well done it made it much harder to avoid. It was very easy to sneak around but opening chests was still pretty hard to do without alerting the warden. The one problem I have though is how easy the warden is to cheat. Just like an iron golem if you can just place lava or pillar up before it reaches you it's very easy to avoid. To fix this I think and make the warden a lot better I think it would be be cool to give it the ability to sort of break blocks kind of like a ravenger with a smash attack or something. I also think it would be good to not by much but make it a little bit faster.

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    I think the snapshot was great. My main concern is about the deep dark biome itself. It feels quite empty at times, and lacks some character due the patches of sculk being quite small. Also, having only one mob spawn there makes it very quiet, but this is not necessarily bad. I think the radius of the sculk catalyst for a mob to die in should be increased

    I do believe the warden is quite challenging, however it is very easy to block its path or tower and softlock it. I was exploring an ancient city and the warden popped up nearly right behind me. It was thrilling and fun. I was able to figure out how to beat the warden by simply not moving very much. I was able to loot the ancient city chests without dying. I think the darkness effect is perfect, and felt scary and atmospheric. I felt quite scared by the wardens sounds while it was chasing me.

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    i was playing and well 

    check 

    seed 2395849259951294171

    tp to -6372 ~ -2908

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    The Warden has so much potential. Avoiding it seems a little too easy at the moment though. Feel like it should not be as affected by fluids as it is, since it can be easily pinned into a corner with a single water bucket. It is also relatively easy to pillar up, tunnel down, or simply block in the Warden. Breaking blocks could solve these problems, but some sort of shock wave attack, or even some sort of vibration based attack that makes blocks in a small area permeable would be interesting.

    Looting chest seemed feasible, but hopefully as the difficulty of the Warden (likely) increases, so will the loot table for the deep dark city chests. Feels like the challenge is greater than looting end cities, so the reward should be at the very least comparable. Swift Sneak is an exciting new enchantment which would make the trip worthwhile, but perhaps having better loot and maybe having the new music disc be exclusive to the cities would make them more worth visiting. Additionally, I feel that Swift Sneak would be an excellent leggings enchantment. The boots are already so saturated with enchants (Feather Falling, Frost Walker, Depth Strider, Soul Speed), and it seems fitting that some sort of enchanted pants would allow you to squat and sneak more effectively.

    Lastly, I hope that all of the properties of the reinforced deepslate are intended (moveable with pistons, doesn't drop anything, wither resistant, hard to mine, etc.). It makes this block very unique, which I love.

  • 1
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    You could easily avoid the warden by destroying the Sculk Skrieker on sight.

    Many sculk patches have only Sculk Skriekers or Sculk Sensors, so those patches have basically no chance of spawning the warden. 

    The Warden is too easy to cheese, basically cheesing him like an iron golem works really well

    Cool city 

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    There should be chests at the big statue thing in the middle. It's a bit odd that there isn't any loot at the heart of the city. 

  • 1
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    So far, love it. I think it'll be good to see the Warden be harder to avoid, but clearly that's still being worked on.

    Everyone here is discussing how to make the Warden more of a challenge...What I want to do is talk about how to throw it off your scent when it finds you. When it's speed increases and it targets you specifically, it's very, very hard to get it to stop being agro'ed on you. If you simply bore a hole in the wall, it doesn't seem like it will ever leave because it still knows exactly where you are, and will just stand there and wait.

    While I think it's appropriate, given you're not supposed to make it out of there if it finds you, it makes the experience so much of a drag because you have 2 options at that point. 1, sit there and swing your sword at it 80,000 times until it dies, or 2, leave the area and hope to god it despawns. I think ways to avert its attention should be more effective... Maybe a stinkbomb made out of frog meat and fermented spider eyes in a brewing stand (or something of that nature). Or something that can temporarily stun it in it's charging state.

    I think the Charging State is simply too powerful, and it's more annoying and tedious than anything. It's hectic at first, it's terrifying having him barreling towards you, and I absolutely adore the way he's animated. The sound design is absolutely top notch, and the sneaking around is really fun! I think the Charging state needs some rebalancing.

  • 3
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    what if warden can pull you with some kinna magic (or maybe hands) if it thinks you are digging down or building up to kill the warden

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    The Warden, with a sculk shrieker, can spawn anywhere on anything which makes no sense! Why would a Warden be hiding in the wool I just placed! The Warden should only be able to spawn and come out of a skulk block or a cluster of skulk blocks big enough to be considered a viable spawning area for the Warden.

  • 0
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    At the moment, I think the snapshot is good for what it has, but it needs more.
    1) I did not feel the Warden was challenging, however I LOVED the Warden's atmosphere is it is extremely ominous. Though, I feel the Warden needs those "cheesing strats" I've heard about, as simply building up or tunneling away was an easy escape. The damage and HP it has are fine, but it needs more mobility and intelligence.
    2) I used creative mode to give myself gear to explore an Ancient City and went into survival to do so, as my first time exploring. While I was exploring, my first encounter with a Warden was when a skeleton accidentally set off shriekers with its arrows, and that was the first time I've felt legitimately scared from a video game for a long time. The Warden's dramatic entrance is near perfect.
    3) Sneaking around the Warden was easy as I already knew how to do so.
    4) Looting chests was easy as the Warden, I feel, spawns too far from the shriekers. I triggered a Warden spawn while I was looting and the Warden spawned off the side of the building and was unable to reach me.
    5) The darkness effect is very well done, but needs toned down. Defaulting to 100% makes everything pitch black. This makes the effect feel like "blackness" instead of "darkness".
    6) In my first encounter, I was pretty freaked out! It was hard to remember to stay still and sneak instead of running, so I feel the Warden hits a good area between "a little freaky" and "horrifying".

  • 2
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    Its too easy to cheese the warden, I present a couple methods to fix the warden which still feel Minecrafty and terrifying.

    Climb: like a spider, the warden should be able to climb blocks to reach the player. This would prevent the pillar method of cheese where the player builds 3-5 blocks up to avoid the warden.

    Crawl: Very simple, he lies on his stomach and starts to crawl under blocks. this is to stop a barricade method where the player would create a 2-block tall celling so he's too tall to walk through.

    Digging: The warden wouldnt break blocks but crawl through them, kinda like his summoning and burying animation. this would stop the cocoon method where you incase yourself in blocks to hide from the warden

  • 0
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    I'm really happy with this snapshot.

    My main points to note are:

    As many others have said. It is easy to get out of reach of the warden BUT... I have waited a long time and the warden, whilst angered, didn't go away. 

    Also, snowballs are supposed to help you sneak away right? I threw a snowball far away from me and the warden went after it. I then sneaked away. I was at least 25 blocks away from the warden, but it still eventualy sniffed me out before burrowing and traveled all the way to me and then got angered and i was forced to painstakingly kill it with a diamond axe while on a piller.

     

    In short I really am exited for this update and I think it's been done really well. I think that the warden should be able to climb/dig/ to get to the player. But I also think it's 'smell' distance should be alot smaller and it should go away a tad faster after getting angered.

     

    Good job you guys.

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    Want to forward by mentioning that the texture work, sound design, & overall atmosphere are INCREDIBLE. Took my first look at the snapshot in survival w/o doing research and it gives exactly the vibe I imagined from what was shared by the devs over the last few months. However, having done so, I also have some thoughts about the Warden's mechanics!

    • First off, even without the "cheese" of pillaring up (which, to my knowledge, is getting fixed eventually), I find the Warden far too easy to escape from. Simply crouching away has been enough to save me every time I accidentally called a Warden, so as long as you keep an escape path in mind you're out scott-free the second you hear a Warden dig up.
    • Bats! They spawn in Ancient Cities fairly often, especially with how the cities tend to overlap with other biomes (not sure if this is something that will be changed in the future), and set off skulk sensors constantly. While this might be an intended mechanic, it makes it incredibly hard to know if you as the Player are setting things off or if it's just another bat nearby.
    • Combining the first two bulletpoints -- I feel that Wardens would benefit from an inability to target bats. If a bat is nearby, it sets off skulk sensors so often that the Warden almost always tracks it instead of the Player, and then the bat is so hard to catch that it gives the Player easy time to get away.

    Overall, fantastic snapshot! Very excited to see the last section of development play out!

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    The ancient city should have way better loot; wasn't it built by a whole ancient civilization who also gave us netherite? So there should be at least a bit of netherite in the chests, or else why would you invade it. The warden should be harder to defeat, maybe you should make it taller so you can't stack up to avoid it, or let it break blocks or throw a projectile or something. Also give it more health. 
    The ancient city is really cool though and those sculk blocks have great potential.

  • 0
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    Name-tagged wardens will still burrow back underground and despawn. It would be awesome if name-tagging a warden causes it to persist forever, to match the nametag behavior with other hostile mobs.

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    When a Player builds up a pIllar to avoid the Warden, Warden will menacingly roar and hit the ground which will damage the Player and deals huge knockback to the Player. Death message of the player getting killed by that attack will be "PlayerName died due to Warden". Subtitles for sound will be "Warden roars menacingly" and "Warden quakes the earth"

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    Did the Ancient City beat Woodland Mansion on the rarest structure in Minecraft?

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    Make it so Wardens that is named with a name tag won't dig down and despawn, as well Wardens in Minecarts.

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    A lot of others described my feelings on the warden perfectly: terrifying, but too easy to cheese. I fully agree with another user suggesting the warden should be able to SLOWLY climb block towers, and I add that the player should not be able to knock them off, just slow them down. Otherwise it becomes a frustrating slow game of pillaring up and then slowly whittling down the wardens health until it's dead.

    In general, the darkness effect is terrifying and I really dislike it, but THANK YOU for letting us adjust the intensity in settings, I hope that stays around for accessibility!! I think I would like the darkness effect much more if it didn't flash at random, where I kind of just hope I'm looking at the right place at the right time, but rather the player did something that allows you a brief moment of visibility. maybe crouching still for one full second lifts the darkness a bit, until you start walking or moving around? It would be a slightly risky maneuver but would let you stop and see where the warden is, then sneak away in short bursts of careful movement. I would like that style of gameplay MUCH more and I think it would make me actually enjoy the darkness effect!

    I also REALLY dislike not being able to place torches or other blocks at risk of alerting the shriekers. I would get really disoriented in cities not being able to mark my path. I think there should be some way to do this without alerting shriekers.

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    I heard a rumor that the unique property of the new Reinforced Deepslate block is unintentional and might be removed. The property that I'm referring to is its ability to be moved by pistons, but be fully blast resistant, even to the Wither's blue skull projectile. If this is planned to be removed, I implore the dev team to reconsider. This property would give this block and the Ancient Cities that it's found in a unique significance that no other block in the game provides. The fact that Reinforced Deepslate cannot be mined and must be transported by pistons to a new location makes it unlikely to affect the expirience of more casual players while still providing more advanced, technical players with a valuable new resource and a unique challenge in obtaining it and getting it to a desired location. I think the Reinforced Deepslate block as it is currently implemented in this snapshot would allow for some really amazing possibilities while still not upsetting the overall balance of the game.

    In short, please have the Reinforced Deepslate keep it's blast resistance and its ability to be moved by pistons.

  • 0
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    - Was the Warden challenging?

    No. He's REALLY easy to cheese. You can even do it accidentally (which I did the first time). Besides the 4 block high tower, there are a myriad of things you can do to keep him within your attack range while you stay outside of his: hiding under a 2 high ledge, standing across a gap from him, using water...

    At the very least, if you can reach him, he should be able to reach you or shorten the distance somehow. But that's not currently the case.

    - Describe any encounters you had with the Warden - did they feel enjoyable?

    They were actually really enjoyable most of the time. Massive sense of danger. Ambience and sounds are perfect. I love it! But when I cheesed him, then I just felt disappointed.

    - Were you able to figure out how to sneak around the Warden?

    Yes, easily. All I really did was put distance between us, which is really easy since he searches so slowly. I only ever got caught intentionally.

    - Were you able to loot chests in the Ancient Cities without being killed by the Warden?

    Absolutely. Even when the warden was approaching it was pretty simple to loot from around a corner and then run or sneak away.

    - Describe how the darkness effect felt.

    Perfectly blinding. Adds a great deal of difficulty to finding safe paths of escape, as it should. Great ambience too!

    - In your encounters with the Warden, how scared did you feel?

    Not as much as I wanted to be, especially after accidentially cheesing him, and getting easy distance from him when summoned.

  • 0
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    Over all, it's amazing and promises a lot.
    But, on this first rough implementation, there is one thing that can be realy improved:

    The caves created by the Ancient Cities structures are really too cubic. You can easily determine the edges of the NBT structure with a simple glance (even more visible in the inside of a corner).
    I think there is some adjustment to be done to soften its angles.