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Deep Dark Experimental Snapshot Feedback

This week we released a side snapshot for Java containing a work in progress version of the Deep Dark feature set, including the Deep Dark biome, Ancient City structures, Sculk blocks and...THE WARDEN!

As well as your general feedback, the team also prepared some questions that they would love to hear your thoughts on after playing:  

  • Was the Warden challenging? If so, what did you enjoy / not enjoy about your encounters with the Warden? 
  • Describe any encounters you had with the Warden - did they feel enjoyable? 
  • Were you able to figure out how to sneak around the Warden? 
  • Were you able to loot chests in the Ancient Cities without being killed by the Warden? 
  • Describe how the darkness effect felt 
  • In your encounters with the Warden, how scared did you feel?  

For more details on in this snapshot and how to access it, check out the blog post over on Minecraft.net.

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  • 281
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    It's very easy to avoid/defeat the Warden. Even if it is angered, it can only stare at you and won't attack if you pillar up by a few blocks - at this point you can then just wait for it to cool down and resume exploring, or just whittle down its HP while it stands there. Same goes for just digging a small hole in the wall/floor that it can't get to.

    There should be some way for the Warden to deal with basic tricks like this, as this has been a known way of cheesing any hostile mob for a long time. Currently, the Warden/Deep Dark are just emphasising being able to react fast and make a hole/pillar before the enemy reaches you, instead of the stealth/sneaking/distraction aspects that the area seems to be designed toward.

  • 105
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    • The warden is impossibly easy to cheese - first thing I tried worked flawlessly (4 block pillar and some lava).
    • The warden fight is impossibly difficult in survival, that part definitely works. There was quite immediately and obviously no way to beat it or even to flee. My only concern is that spoiler-free players who don't check out the snapshot or anything will face an impossible challenge.
    • What does and doesn't trigger the warden wasn't immediately obvious - it ended up attacking me when I thought it was still fine. Even when standing still, the warden walked up to me and pushed me, causing a sound that angered the Warden! The darkness also made it really difficult to sneak around. The general effect of the darkness is awesome - makes me feel claustrophobic and like there are unspeakable horrors just around the corner (because there are!). 
    • I was not able to loot the city. I think I could with practice, but the inability to place torches really hampered my efforts.
    • I played without headphones, and even then I was terrified!

    This snapshot makes me really excited. I would love for the Warden to be less cheeseable. The design of the cities is incredible, and the lore possibilities are still flooding into my mind. The darkness effect is really awesome, but makes it frustrating to try to evade the Warden because I can't see where I'm going. I love this update so far - can't wait to see it in a finished state!

  • 86
    Registered User commented
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    For my feedback, I feel make the Warden be able to slowly climb up if you are in an elevated space like a tower because you can simply build a tower to make the Warden not be able to attack you. This makes the deep dark feels less dangerous. I said to make it slowly climb because this can make the player react and also make it feel fair. Another thing is to make it fire resistant, this will make it less likely to cheese kill it.

  • 64
    Registered User commented
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    If you summon the warden with "/summon minecraft:warden ~ ~ ~ {NoAI:1b, Silent:1b}", it still has heartbeat sound, instead of being completely silent.

  • 55
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    Sprint Sneak should be a leggings enchantment rather than a boots enchantment, mostly because there are far too many boot enchantments in the game currently, many of which can't be used with Sprint Speed. Since it is a reward from one of the most challenging section of the game, I don't think using Sprint Speed after the player obtains it should result in them having to sacrifice one of their other boot enchantments, and rather they should be able to just put it on their leggings. 

  • 47
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    First things first: the Deep Dark user experience is incredible. No notes. 10/10 would get absolutely suplexed by a Warden hell-in-a-cell style again.

    The Warden does seem to need a bit of polishing imo: it gets stuck in water rather easily. Most deep dark biomes are currently located alongside dripstone caves and wardens get trapped inside the tiny water pools very easily, unable to move. Also they get distracted by bats a lot. But maybe that's more of an accidental feature? (It saved my life down there more than once lmao.)

    As people have already noted, it's still pretty easy to cheese a Warden, but I know the team are working on solutions. Perhaps some sort of "sculk tendrils" equivalent to evoker fangs? So if a player pillars or digs out of a warden's reach, the sculk tendrils reach out and damage them (or maybe even pull them closer towards the warden?). Just a suggestion though.

    Chest loot is easy enough to find once you know the areas where they can spawn. Currently the actual treasure is a bit lacking (as it currently stands, enchanted books and some candles aren't worth the risk of clearing a city) but I suspect the loot tables will tweaked as time goes on. Humbly requesting a chance for god apples please and thank you.

    Keep up the great work!

  • 39
    Registered User commented
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    Maybe make the warden negate knockback and punch enchantments because with a punch bow it is very easy to kill the warden.

  • 33
    Registered User commented
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    Few main issues i encountered with the deep dark biome 

    Whilst the ancient city and warden are absolutely amazing! The deep dark biome itself felt incredibly lacking, it felt more like a regular cave with a few Sculk patches than an actual biome itself, so you could maybe cover the caves in Sculk and maybe even add in a miniature structure to fix this. It also felt like the deep dark biome generated way too high up in the caves when i think it should really exclusively generate into deepslate levels and no higher. 

  • 31
    Registered User commented
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    Everything is great except for a few minor things -

    The Warden should have more vertical reach than the player - this would make pillaring to cheese it a lot harder. If you were to pillar too low, it could attack you, but if you got high enough that it cant attack you, you cant reach it.

    The Warden should also have a ways of getting out of a 2-3 block deep pit if it falls into one since it can't chase after you if it cant leave it. Maybe a jump attack could work but I don't think that would fit too well since other mobs normally can't jump on command like that.

    It would also be nice to have the sculk catalyst range be tweak-able in the form of a gamerule, since I have some lag/griefing concerns as a server owner. Kingbdogz mentioned it was unlikely it could be made larger, but maybe it could be made a bit smaller?

    Awesome snapshot otherwise! Glad to see it coming along well :)

  • 30
    Registered User commented
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    Yes. And in my opinion he should be challenging. Sounds and animations, they are so great. You have created a very good atmosphere. It's so easy to kill him, if you just go up by 2 blocks, you can reach him, but Warden can't reach you. 

    I like how he climbs out, and again, animation is so good.

    Snowballs.

    Yes. How? Snowballs and blocks.

    I think it's pretty scary.

    If my 2 blocks tactic wouldn't work, I would be really scared, because he moves so fast, one mistake and you're dead.

    Just give him more vertical reach.

  • 29
    Registered User commented
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    When in spectator mode and clicking on the warden, the player should be blind.

  • 27
    Registered User commented
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    My structure appeared completely flooded and there was a lot of volume in the rock, not sure if this is acceptable. I don’t understand why wool is needed to muffle steps? Better let there be carpets.

  • 26
    Registered User commented
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    The Swift Sneak enchantment should go on leggings, instead of the boots because there are no leggings only enchants, and there's 4 boots only enchants. Also, you use your knees to crouch, and your knees are on your legs. 

  • 24
    Registered User commented
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    1. Overall, I like how the Warden works, and generally, it feels nerve-racking. But it is too easy to escape.
    2. Yes, but the Warden felt slightly derpy.
    3. Yes, since the Warden lacks any object permanence, it is quite simple to wait until the Warden is distracted.
    4. Yes, it is fairly easy to escape from the Warden with its loot and to even get away without triggering it.
    5. The darkness effect is exactly how I wanted it to be; I feel that it could have more of an effect on night vision though, as well as creating some form of a soundscape around the player.
    6. I felt excited and nervous but overall, not very terrified.

    In general, I feel that the Warden is too slow compared to the player and should produce more sound as it chases the player. The heartbeat works but is too silent. The derby factor needs to be addressed as well, with bats making the Warden chase them, the animations occurring in weird areas that feel unnatural like emerging small holes and on single block pillars. The Warden should also be given a rough direction of the sound the Sculk Senser picked up that lead to its spawning. Sneaking should also have an ineffective range of a block, maybe two. Sculk patches should also always, at least, have a Shrieker and two to three Sensors. But, overall, a really cool mob with loads of potential that I'm excited to see progress.

  • 24
    Registered User commented
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    Problem I noticed with the warden was how incredibly easy it was to cheese it with a bucket of water. Can defiantly be fixed if the warden was able to swim and out paces the water flow in seconds.

  • 24
    Registered User commented
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    I think there are too many enchantments for boots. So I think swift sneak should be added to the leggings. Like it's making your legs move faster. Just an idea.

  • 24
    Registered User commented
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    I don't like how the normal Minecraft music can play while you're in the deep dark. It ruins the atmosphere and it doesn't make me frightened whatsoever.

  • 23
    Registered User commented
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    New music in deep dark biome, a orror music, when you enter, in biome, the music stop, and you heard a strange song, very silent....

  • 22
    Registered User commented
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    It would be really cool if you name tagged the Warden it wouldn't dig back underground again so you can have a pet warden. 

  • 21
    Registered User commented
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    Im fine with whatever Mojang does with the Deep Dark, but all I ask is that Cartographer Villagers sell maps to the Ancient Cities so one can find these cities in pre 1.19 worlds when the update comes out.

  • 20
    Registered User commented
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    Sometimes digs in blocks and takes damage.

  • 18
    Registered User commented
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    (Continued from my original response because 1500 character limit)

    Were you able to loot chests in the Ancient Cities without being killed by the Warden?
    - Yes. I think there could be a little more in the loot table, however.

    Describe how the darkness effect felt
    - Suspenseful, and quite cool!
    In your encounters with the Warden, how scared did you feel?
    - I haven't played many horror games, but this is such a close feeling to Amnesia: The Dark Descent, being pursued by the Warden, I was always checking my back. It's genuinely terrifying!

    Overall, I really love this so far. All that's needed is some anti-cheesing measures, better loot tables in the chests, and that'll be great! You guys do amazing work <3

    While I'm at it, please add a way for datapack creators to adjust the table of what bonemeal places or fix double tallgrass from bonemeal. I greatly dislike the change to bonemeal where it places double tallgrass, even though you can bonemeal regular tall grass - Not very fun for decorating lawns and grass features on builds :s

  • 18
    Registered User commented
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    Since the warden isn't supposed to be killed,
    I would suggest that he digs down again,
    when he has 0 HP

  • 17
    Registered User commented
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    Deep Dark: 
    Feels super whelming and kinda boring. Not much happens and it just needs way more to it to feel more intresting. I feel like the Deep Dark needs the most work overall, it just feel boring, empty, easy, and not scary like you intend. With no mobs spawn, all you have are small patches of skulk that are pretty easy to avoid. Just please add more to the Deep Dark. Prehaps a Sulk trap mob or a turret based skulk enemy. 
    Warden: I will hold off judgement until hes less cheeseable but currently hes...way too easy. 

    Anciet Cities: Need speical loot. 

  • 16
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    Along with being painfully easy to cheese, a 3 block pillar (edit: turns out 2 blocks is sufficient) is all that is required, the warden also does not give the Monster Hunter advancement and the darkness effect needs to be added to the list for the How did we get here advancement. I also feel that grey wool in the city feels off, it looks ok, but makes very little sense that an underground city has parts made of a material that grows on a creature found on the surface, maybe concrete would be a good replacement. Also during the warden's spawning animation, it feels off being able to go right up to him and have no consequences, maybe have an area around his spawning location that if entered will deal a warden's hit worth of damage during the climbing animation.

    Suggestions: Give the warden some kind of pulling ability, so if you just pillar up and his AI cant get closer to you and you are within like 5 blocks, have him wind up a pull or something. In addition, make him immune to projectiles, although it takes quite a few arrows, pillaring up 10 blocks and bowing him to death seems a bit too cheesy. And make the loot inside the city better, like End City loot is probably the most comparable to what I feel it should be.

     

    And the skulk shrieker effect needs to be added to subtitles

  • 16
    Registered User commented
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    The Warden seems to suffocate often when first spawning.

  • 16
    Registered User commented
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    I feel like there should be some sort of map or way to find ancient cities, because otherwise they're not only very rare but also hidden underground, unlike other rare structures.

  • 16
    Registered User commented
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    Swift sneak should be a leggings enchantments not a boots enchantment imo

  • 15
    Registered User commented
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    I think the warden is a really great mob, but there are some flaws. For example: You can just get 3-4 blocks up and you are safe. (I think this will get fixed though), and you can just jump in a pool of water to gain some distance, as wardens are extremely slow in water. The Darkness effect is really nice, but I wish it was just a bit darker. All in all, I love the new features and good work on them!

  • 15
    Registered User commented
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    The warden wasn't very challenging. I consistently avoided it by being cautious and patient. I didn't like how I could simply run away as soon as it spawned. With the big, open, areas, that was quite easy to do. I loved encounters with the Warden in tight corridors. Those were the tensest moments for me when my means of escape were restricted. In one of my encounters, the warden became very angry, and I ended up being cornered, leading to a very scary, but entertaining death. It didn't take me very long to grasp the warden's mechanics. Its animation and sounds clearly show how it works, and I am very impressed with the design in that department. I looted many chests. Those were never much of a challenge since I could quickly grab one and bolt. The darkness effect was cool, I don't have much of an opinion on it, but I am a little confused by when it activates. I've had the warden spawn without the effect, and I've had the effect hit me without the warden. I couldn't quite grasp what was causing darkness, but it was spooky. The encounters with the warden were surprisingly tense. The scariest moments were when I accidentally summoned the warden in a tight space, like at the bottom of a pit. Again, tighter corridors make the warden infinitely more terrifying to deal with. Though, now that I experienced the mob, I am not too scared, knowing that it's not too hard to deal with.