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Deep Dark Experimental Snapshot Feedback

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  • 33
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    Few main issues i encountered with the deep dark biome 

    Whilst the ancient city and warden are absolutely amazing! The deep dark biome itself felt incredibly lacking, it felt more like a regular cave with a few Sculk patches than an actual biome itself, so you could maybe cover the caves in Sculk and maybe even add in a miniature structure to fix this. It also felt like the deep dark biome generated way too high up in the caves when i think it should really exclusively generate into deepslate levels and no higher. 

  • 24
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    Problem I noticed with the warden was how incredibly easy it was to cheese it with a bucket of water. Can defiantly be fixed if the warden was able to swim and out paces the water flow in seconds.

  • 16
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    Along with being painfully easy to cheese, a 3 block pillar (edit: turns out 2 blocks is sufficient) is all that is required, the warden also does not give the Monster Hunter advancement and the darkness effect needs to be added to the list for the How did we get here advancement. I also feel that grey wool in the city feels off, it looks ok, but makes very little sense that an underground city has parts made of a material that grows on a creature found on the surface, maybe concrete would be a good replacement. Also during the warden's spawning animation, it feels off being able to go right up to him and have no consequences, maybe have an area around his spawning location that if entered will deal a warden's hit worth of damage during the climbing animation.

    Suggestions: Give the warden some kind of pulling ability, so if you just pillar up and his AI cant get closer to you and you are within like 5 blocks, have him wind up a pull or something. In addition, make him immune to projectiles, although it takes quite a few arrows, pillaring up 10 blocks and bowing him to death seems a bit too cheesy. And make the loot inside the city better, like End City loot is probably the most comparable to what I feel it should be.

     

    And the skulk shrieker effect needs to be added to subtitles

  • 14
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    I think a good way to make the warden not as cheesable via towering would be if it's rush attack was instead a leap/lunge, that would make it actually get into the air. Also making it able to resist water/lava flow better would be good.

     

  • 2
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    I think since it has two openings(its mouth and chest), it should sink underwater. Perhaps its sounds can be nullified too since sculk sensors are silent underwater. It also shouldn't drown.

  • 9
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    I also think that since you can block it off, it should either be able to phase through a certain amount of blocks or be able to travel underneath the wall that you built.

  • 3
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    When the warden killed a mob, it will still stiff and go to where the mob used to be.

  • 31
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    Everything is great except for a few minor things -

    The Warden should have more vertical reach than the player - this would make pillaring to cheese it a lot harder. If you were to pillar too low, it could attack you, but if you got high enough that it cant attack you, you cant reach it.

    The Warden should also have a ways of getting out of a 2-3 block deep pit if it falls into one since it can't chase after you if it cant leave it. Maybe a jump attack could work but I don't think that would fit too well since other mobs normally can't jump on command like that.

    It would also be nice to have the sculk catalyst range be tweak-able in the form of a gamerule, since I have some lag/griefing concerns as a server owner. Kingbdogz mentioned it was unlikely it could be made larger, but maybe it could be made a bit smaller?

    Awesome snapshot otherwise! Glad to see it coming along well :)

  • 6
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    I think instead of shooting projectiles to player that had the high ground, it would be interesting if wardens gets an immunity to projectiles such as fireball/arrow etc. So player must face warden in close combat wether they like it or not

  • 15
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    Overall this snapshot was amazing, my current concern is more of an aesthetic choice for the structure of the ancient cities. I think utilizing soul laterns and soul sand removes a lot of the uniqueness of the nether exploring those biomes in the dimension. One way to fix this is by giving sculk block a use if being like netherrack and soul sand/soil. Imagine if full blocks of sculk were ignitable and it emitted not a blue or orange flame but a green one that has a very dim light level to give the similar effect. Then that adds a use and lore to the structure and sculk blocks. This then can make sculk laterns and campfires and torches. These would give a lot more variance in decoration as well.

  • 2
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    I just did an experiment to see how long it takes to break a piece of reinforced deepslate (yes, you can do it). Apparently, using any type of pickaxe to mine it does not speed up the process like a pickaxe would on other stone-type blocks, as both my fist and an unenchanted Netherite pickaxe both take about 1 minute and 23 seconds to break a block of it. Is this supposed to happen?

  • 1
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    Currently the Warden can't be captured into a minecart. It can however be summoned outside the Deep Dark. There is potential to have a unique method of transporting the warden to a desired location. If you create an enclosed area place down some skulk blocks and a shrieker then activate it so the warden spawns in the created area that would be a really handy way to transport the Warden. So we could use the warden in things like minigames. Otherwise, the Warden needs to be able to be put in a Minecrart.

  • 7
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    I've noticed that if the Warden is playing an animation (Such as when it sniffs), if the player presses Escape, then the animation continues playing while the game is paused.

  • 7
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    I think it was easy to cheese/avoid the warden, but he is thrilling nonetheless. I like the deep dark, but don't really see the point in going to the ancient cities as of right now, since the loot inside of the chests isn't particularly rare/unique/valuable from my experience. 

  • 21
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    Im fine with whatever Mojang does with the Deep Dark, but all I ask is that Cartographer Villagers sell maps to the Ancient Cities so one can find these cities in pre 1.19 worlds when the update comes out.

  • 16
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    The Warden seems to suffocate often when first spawning.

  • 5
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    I think it's awesome and cool, though the Warden and the city's loot could use some more work, but of course that's what snapshots are for :p

    The loot just needs to feel more valuable I think; while Swift Sneak is nice for getting around the city, it doesn't really feel that valuable, and doesn't seem to really need any balancing in terms of making it incompatible with the other boot enchants, though I understand if there's an issue with trying to make all the boot effects work at once idk. I don't currently have any ideas for other unique loot, though, unless there could be something related to the reinforced deepslate structure.

    For the Warden, I think maybe water could slow it down less and let it hop up blocks while in it, if it wouldn't swim; it seems to be unable to get out of even a 1-block deep pool, but I know that's very likely unintentional. Would be cool if it could move against flowing fluids. For other anti-cheese stuff, maybe it could dig to us without breaking blocks like how it first appears, send souls or sculk stuff to get us, or some other cool power. Maybe it could move a bit faster too, and perhaps it could have more defense or health for extra protection against people trying to turn it into the mac and cheese Warden.

    otherwise it's pretty cool, the darkness effect is awesome, and even with the work I feel the Warden needs it gave me a good feeling and it feels intimidating.

  • 5
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    • The Warden itself was not too challenging, as the animation when it spawns in gives the player enough time to back up somewhere far enough away. That said, the darkness and the Warden are a dangerous pair and effectively made the Warden challenging due to not always knowing where it is exactly.
    • They were enjoyable and mostly challenging, as I had to focus on where the Warden was, but the ability to cheese it by building up killed most encounters not in confined spaces.
    • Yep
    • Yep
    • The darkness made it impossible to tell where the Warden was exactly and had me bunkering down until it passed--it feels perfect.
    • I would say the Warden made me more tense than scared, as I know it's around, but I don't know what it's going to do.
  • 0
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    I'm on a MAC and the chunk loading seems WAY slower than usual. I'm not sure if this is just me but something is going on whether be it the update or my just my computer.

  • 0
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    Ok, for being the very first snapshot it was pretty pretty good.

    However, avoiding Warden is really easy.

    1. U can build a 10 blocks tower and with an infinity bow u can manage to survive and/or scape

    2. You can build a mini bunker and hit the warden, pretty similar to what people do with endermen

    3. Deep Dark biome in general is very ordinary, it is just warden blocks placed throughout caves

    Taking these points in count my suggestions are

    1. Make Warden able to climb and break blocks

    2. Make Deep Dark biome more unique, not just Warden blocks randomly placed

    3. Make Warden attack hostile and peaceful mobs.

    4. Make Warden drop insanely rare and precious.

    5. Make Ancient Cities bigger

    6. Make Darkness effect 100% black screen

  • 1
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    I just a couple ideas, one is that it should be able to break blocks to get to its target that way you cant just pillar up, or dig into a wall, and the other idea I had is that maybe the chests in the deep dark restock every 20 in game days or so, to kind of incentivize people going back for the loot.

  • 0
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    I absolutely love the Warden. Although it can currently be cheesed by pillaring up or blocking in, I tried to escape without those techniques, as they'll likely be fixed later. From the moment it spawns, the combinations of the Darkness effect, the excellent tracking capabilities of the warden, and the layout of the Ancient Cities come together wonderfully to create a sense of fear and panic, which is exactly what I was hoping to get from the experience. While escaping, the bouts of darkness made me slow down to make sure I was sticking to a safe pathway and avoiding any skulk sensors. As I went around corners, I would have to listen and look closely for where the Warden was. The snowball mechanic was pretty balanced, not distracting the Warden for long, and also requiring precision to aim the snowball to land near enough the warden to distract it, but far enough that you would get some leeway. My biggest gripe with the snapshot was with the loot from the city. Currently, I found the biggest rewards to be skeleton skulls on the walls and the Swift Sneak book. The enchantment, however, feels extremely overpowered. It makes evading the warden too easy, especially with level 3. After it was summoned, I simply crouchwalked away before it had even begun searching for me. Also, by running for a moment then crouching, it is possible to maintain sprint speed without making a sound.

  • 1
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    One change I think would be really great is for there to be only one warden per city. This would make it feel a lot more like a mini boss than just a hostile mob. Additionally, this would open up a lot of potential for underground bases. If you manage to slay the warden, you’ve conquered the entire city and can make it into your own base. And since mobs don’t spawn in the cities, you can leave it as dark as you want, which opens up a lot of building opportunities to play with light without having to worry about dying.

  • 1
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    Significant bug report: Warden emerging and burrowing behavior issues and weird occurances

     

    From my testing, this is significant info about warden emerging and burrowing behavior:

     

    *Warden can both emerge from and burrow into:*

    bottom half of slab or any other non-full block, like stonecutters and trapdoors (including floating bottom trapdoors)

    floating doors, fences and walls (notably, warden immediately falls through to the ground when emerging on fence/wall, but if placed on top of can burrow into it after the timer)

    regular platform with up-facing pointed dripstone covering it, including 3+ high pointed dripstone

    regular platform with: bamboo (including multiple high) or signs covering it

    floating or on top of regular platform: amethyst clusters, or soul lanterns and campfires

    glass

    bedrock

    wool

     

    *Warden can burrow into but cannot emerge from:*

    regular platform with: string, redstone, carpet (including double carpet), cobwebs, rails, twisting vines, both torches, or powder snow covering it

    regular platform of grass block with: grass, tall grass, or flowers covering it

    regular platform with 1 layer or fully submerged water covering it, same with lava if given fire resistance

    floating or on top of platform: candles, end rods (any orientation), and regular lanterns and campfires (these ones likely for light level reasons)

     

    *Warden can emerge from but cannot burrow into:*

    floating powder snow

     

    *Warden cannot emerge nor burrow into:*

    floating cobwebs

    cactus

    floating or on top of platform big dripleaf

  • 6
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    a neat feature i think would be that a named warden shouldn't burrow back into the ground, if for some reason you wanted to keep it as a pet, or make a game/map with it.


    Going with this, any warden shouldn't be able to burrow into or emerge from certain blocks, like bedrock and obsidian, or any non-full block like the bottom of a slab

  • 4
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    Regarding wardens in ancient cities, when I sprinted through the city I could easily and quickly grab loot from chests. I feel that's kind of wrong? Veteran players often run through all the dangerous areas with confidence, and since you said your goal was to make us feel like it's our first night, I think you should increase the density of sensors and shriekers in ancient cities to make this strategy unviable. Or perhaps remove the ability to sprint when having the "darkness" effect.

  • 4
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    I think the city’s walls/wool pathways should enter the channel-like area around the center frame structure(I’m having a hard time describing that area, hopefully you know what I mean). Right now they go to the center, but you can’t get into the center because it is blocked by the wall surrounding the center. It doesn’t make sense design wise for them to not be used as an entrance to the center. Why would the builders of the city put in the effort to build the wool paths to the center but then not make it an entrance? They should be side entrances in my opinion.

  • 7
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    One bizarre bug I encountered is that the Warden could activate Sculk Sensors by standing on them, leading to a loop of the Warden repeatedly getting agitated at the Sensor that it was activating. I was not able to reproduce this after the first time, but it's worth noting.

    Other than that, here's some general feedback.

    - Sculk Shriekers can be bypassed if you're fast enough; They can't summon the Warden if you break them before they're finished screaming. The maximum group you can do this with seems to be only 2 Shriekers, so I think it's fine. 

    - The loot feels a bit bland for a place meant to be incredibly dangerous. Bones, Sculk, Books, Candles, and maybe some weak enchantments (as well as Swift Sneak)? I'm grateful for the new enchantment, don't get me wrong, but I feel like it just... isn't enough. It's an enchantment specifically made for the Deep Dark, but what's the point of even going to the Deep Dark if the loot is kind of lame? A new item exclusive to the Deep Dark that has uses outside of the biome would be good.

    - Reinforced Deepslate definitely needs a use. If it's going to be exclusive to the Deep Dark, is extremely hard to break, and doesn't even drop itself when mined, then.. what's its purpose?

    - The Warden, as others have said, is extremely easy to bypass. Pillar up and you're fine. The Warden can be blocked by simple walls as well. 


    - The Warden is meant to be resistant to Knockback, but with a Punch 2 Bow that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

  • 5
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    I think the warden should only emerge from sculk blocks. It doesn’t make sense for it to come out of deepslate or anything else.

  • 2
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    Ancient Cities need Vex Mob Spawners!!
    Similar to how nether fortresses have blaze spawners and wither skeletons, Ancient Cities should have Vex mob spawners and the Warden. Vex mob spawners don't currently exist and would add a new terrifying component to the deep dark and ancient cities. Imagine trying to sneak through the ancient cities to avoid the warden and all of a sudden there are Vex in hot pursuit!! AHHHHH, you can help but break the silence and run.