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Resource density too low

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  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    No, the amount of resources is not even somewhat similar to before. Have you looked at the ore distribution chart? There are now specific levels where you can find the most of certain ores. Also with the new huge caves, exploring has become the best way of finding resources. Making a tunnel has become a rather questionable decision with all of the areas you can cover by just caving, so if you're still doing that, try caving instead. That's part of the main purpose of the cave update.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Yes, I've looked at the new charts. And you've completely missed the point. It's not the AMOUNTS that are a problem so much as the DENSITY. There's twice as much to dig through, but the same amount of resources.

    Regarding caving, you've missed another major point: caving makes the problem WORSE, because coal, lapiz, and diamond all have reduced air exposure. Thus, with larger caves, you won't see these minerals as much, even if you're standing right next to them.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    To highlight how low the new densities are, I hollowed out four sections totalling over sixteen thousand blocks between layers 4 and -60. I did it exhaustively, one layer at a time, but somewhat randomly (four volumes of 4096 blocks at a time). I counted only 16 seams of ANY resource*, totalling about 60-70 individual resource blocks.

    That's simply unacceptable.

    * "Resource" means resources any of the various ores found at those depths, namely diamond, lapiz lazuli, gold, and redstone.

  • 2
    Registered User commented
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    I love the new caves, but a huge part of playing minecraft for me is strip-/branchmining. Just a nice way to clear my head and relax. The immense lack of resources you get while doing that now took the fun away. I get (on avarage) just a few resources per mining trip. Stacks on stacks of the new rock types tough. And that on y -55.

    Would love for my way to relax back! The levels as shown in the chart don't feel like they are shown in the charts, and thats as shame.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Reduced air exposure doesn't nerf caving nearly as much as you think. If you're simply making a tunnel, you're covering an extremely small area in a given amount of time compared to the huge areas you can cover by just caving. You can cover 10s of chunks in a few minutes by just exploring. You'll need hours of strip-mining to cover that same area, meaning caving and exploring is often most favorable. You might want to blow up some parts of the underground so that you uncover huge areas and find all of the ores below the stone, so they actually introduced new ways of mining that nobody really used before. Besides, the reduced air exposure doesn't apply to aquifers, which you find all the time, so now there's an incentive to exploring underwater to get the most ores. Most people find strip-mining very tedious and boring, so those people can now explore the beautiful, vast cave systems and still get a lot of ores. For those who might like strip-mining, the reduced exposure is very balancing because now they can find enough ores almost as quickly as those who chose to go caving (which are most of the people).

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    As for resource "density", ore distribution is Y-level dependent, not Z/X level dependent. I don't understand why anyone would want to get ores simply by mining up and down. One of the main purposes of the cave update is to add strategy to mining, and they've done that by assingning sets and ranges of Y-levels where you find certain amounts of different ores. You need to learn which Y-levels are best for getting any specific ore, and that definitely adds a lot of strategy and fun to mining. You keep using the word density in a very broad sense without explaining what you specifically mean. Nobody should mine from level 61 to -64 and complain about not getting as many ores as they used to in relation to the blocks they mined; there is simply no strategy with that, so it's just a bad way to do it. It's not how mining and searching for resources is meant to be; it's not meant to be a random thing were you just break blocks wherever and get certain amounts anymore. It's now Y-level dependent, so there's meant to be thinking and learning in mining. That's something new players will learn.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Ziad:

    Density is the number of resources per X blocks. There are twice as many blocks, but the same number of resources. Hence, the density is half of what it used to be.

    In caves, it's a LOT worse (much more than the 50% due to density), because, by definition, 100% of the blocks in the cave are air, not resources. The only resources you can get caving are those where a vein breaks through to one of the walls, floor, or ceiling. But, of the critical ores, those are reduced yet another 50%. If there would have been a single ore showing on a wall (etc.), then there's a 50% chance that you will NEVER see that vein at all without random digging.

    Tunnel mining is by far the most efficient method of mining for resources. Even in the old game, this was true. But, with larger and more expansive caves now, tunneling might be as much as ten times more efficient. Try it: count out the blocks you see vs. the ones you see when you dig tunnels. There's no comparison, really.

    But, in either case, there simply aren't enough of the critical resources, because the density is too low (by close to half). It's just math (and, being a mathematician, I know what I'm talking about.)

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Ok, so you're a mathematician, but this is a game. It's about the overall experience you get, not about how many ores you find be clearing chunks or counting or messing around in Creative. Caves simply generate by replacing all of the stone in the underground with Air blocks and Lava sources. The caves before this update were just extremely small, so by simple logic you can tell that they'd intersect with less total ores on average. Ofcourse, the amount of ores per X blocks in a cave has certainly decreased, but you aren't thinking of it from a gameplay perspective. The number of ores you'd find exposed in small Carver Caves is nothing compared to the number of ores exposed in a huge Noise Cave. Trying to make a tunnel is tedious and takes extreme effort. Nobody will try to hollow out an area the size of these caves in search for ores, so density is not really that big of a concern. I really can't lay my hand on the issue you're proposing. I've seen someone in the early snapshots try to get Diamonds (when they were incredibly common deep down) through strip-mining in Creative as a test. At first he found 2 veins close to one another, but he had to mine over 200 more blocks in a straight tunnel to find another vein, compared to seeing one every few blocks he walked inside a cave. I don't have access to Java Edition, so I can't try it myself, but from what I've seen, the amount of ores you by just exploring is pretty balanced compared to the amount you find by strip-mining.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Anyway, in both cases they're trying to make each playstyle a favorable solution. For those who like strip-mining, it will still be very efficient. According to Jim you can find a lot more ores in terms of density. Even if that's the case, this is still pretty balanced because of the sheer amount of time and the Pickaxes it takes to dig a big enough tunnel. So if you enjoy strip-mining (which is rare) or you are just willing to perform such a tedious task to avoid monsters, you'd still find ores at a very good rate (probably higher rates than caving) when considering time, if Jim is correct. Also, like I said, the decreased air exposure doesn't apply to aquifers, which you find very often. So their aim behind all of this is to give different ways and strategies of mining, and fairly cater to a variety of playstyles. They consider those who don't want to deal with the dangers of caves (relatable) versus those who want to explore and take the risks, while also adding new ways of mining that weren't really practiced before, like searching for ores underwater or using TNT to clear some stone. In my opinion, they almost nailed mining and ore generation when it comes to adding more strategy and depth, though a lot of people agree that we might really need more Iron and Diamond frequency. This was an interesting debate :)

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    ok mr mathematician, the point of the update is to make the ore distribution more balanced, not keep it exactly the same as 1.16. Remember the snapshot that first introduced noise caves? You could find ore every ten blocks and you'd have a stack of diamonds within ten minutes. That would be the result of keeping the "density" the same. Since caves are so large, the only way to keep the ores balanced is reducing them. Secondly, the reason many ores have reduced air exposure is to balance strip mining with caving. While caving, every four blocks that are exposed is a block you'd have to break if you were strip mining instead. That's a lot of blocks. Without reduced air exposure, strip mining wouldn't even be a viable option. Players would be forced to explore caves instead. Besides, the update is supposed to make the overall yield of mining and caving better, not the same. Obviously, Mojang believes that it should be slightly harder to get certain resources than it was in 1.16, and they're adjusting accordingly.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    The caves don't REDUCE ore, they ELIMINATE IT! All of that air used to be stone (etc.) and ores. They're all gone in a cave. 100%, by definition. All one sees caving are veins that happen to have been cut off at a wall, floor, or ceiling, which is a miniscule percent of what used to be present.

    But my main point still stands: density of resources (ores) has been reduced by half where there are no caves, and by a lot more where there are. It needs to be corrected, as it takes far too long to achieve any kind of progress now. I've now played three games in a row that I quit after getting down to level 20 or so and found ZERO iron. And the other resources are even worse (although not as critical in the early game.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    It has improved slightly in certain respects, but the density is still WAY too low. It takes forever to gather up enough resources to get anything done now. Except lapiz lazuli. That's coming out my ears; it can be reduced somewhat. 

    But especially iron and diamonds are far FAR too hard to find. You're doubled the number of levels in which resources can be found, and then took a high percentage of them away from us by replacing them with air (caves). Please increase the amount of resources by at least 1/4, and maybe even half.