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Illusioner Rework

It's plain to see that people have taken a shine to the illusioner, but I've also heard that the devs think the illusioner needs a significant rework before they can be added properly...  So, here's my attempt at providing a solution to this...

Judging from their clothes, their spells, and the name for their type, it seems that illusioners have some measure of skill involving things like stage magic (perhaps as a hobby on the side), but more importantly, it seems that they may potentially be the evokers' personal assistants and even enforcers, secretly helping the evoker keep an eye on other underlings by disguising themselves for whichever job the evoker assigns them- whether in the mansions or at pillager outposts- and reporting back to the evokers.  

So, I propose that the illusioner should be reworked accordingly in several ways:

- The illusioner, when not found either in a raid (in which case they would appear starting at wave four) or in an evoker's presence, should be disguised as some other type of testificate mob depending on the location where they are found, dropping their disguise upon attacking, being attacked, or being interacted with by players attempting to trade; this would combine two highly requested ideas.

- By default, the illusioner should attack using spectral arrows rather than the standard arrows, which would make the illusioner more unique while preserving the fun that people talk about having in fights with the them, though the illusioner may instead wield a different ranged weapon depending on their initial disguise (e.g. if they were previously disguised as a pillager, they would wield a crossbow); furthermore, they should have the rare chance to wield throwing knives instead of a bow (these do about 2-5 HP of damage per hit).

- Illusioners need to have their full HP reduced from 32 to 24, putting them more in line with other illagers, as well as cutting down on the needless annoyance factor that seems to be holding this mob back in the eyes of people who summon these.

- The illusioner should drop a special amulet upon death which enables you to summon fake duplicates just as the illusioner does upon turning invisible, and possibly also an emerald or even throwing knives upon death.

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  • 2
    Registered User commented
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    I like some of the idea but not all of it.

    What's good:
    The general concept of what illusioners are. I never could quite figure out what they were supposed to be. You have a great idea!
    The throwing knives. I think they could fit nicely into the combat system and I'm generally for new, unique kinds of weapons. Throwing knives could have distinct advantages and disadvantages over bows and crossbows and would be cool to see what the devs come up with. Maybe something like an enchantment called "shadow" which gives the wielder invisibility for 5 seconds after they hit with a knife.

    What I'm unsure about:
    Reducing their health: I guess if others have had this complaint it may be fine, but as servant to the evokers and with the punch a power 5 bow or sharpness 5 bow can bring, idk if its necessary. I have not played around much with illusioners myself so I don't know if their health really is annoying or not.

    What I don't like:
    Villagers suddenly becoming hostile and attacking would be awkward I think. I know it is frequently requested (on reddit at least), but frankly I don't think it would fit the game. I love the role of illusioners as spies, it just fits their magic, but I think a better way of incorporating them into villages could and should be found.

  • 6
    Registered User commented
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    Thanks for replying to this @Magnus Anderson, still, it looks like I'm going to have to reply to this comment in chunks...

    >What's good: 

    >The general concept of what illusioners are. I never could quite figure out what they were supposed to be. You have a great idea!

    Thanks very much!

    >The throwing knives. I think they could fit nicely into the combat system and I'm generally for new, unique kinds of weapons. Throwing knives could have distinct advantages and disadvantages over bows and crossbows and would be cool to see what the devs come up with. Maybe something like an enchantment called "shadow" which gives the wielder invisibility for 5 seconds after they hit with a knife.

    One disadvantage I can think of right off the bat is them potentially having decreased range compared to bows and crossbows...

    >What I'm unsure about: 

    >Reducing their health: I guess if others have had this complaint it may be fine, but as servant to the evokers and with the punch a power 5 bow or sharpness 5 bow can bring, idk if its necessary. I have not played around much with illusioners myself so I don't know if their health really is annoying or not.

    Watch some of the fights on YouTube...  

    I heard some of these people say in their videos that they wouldn't want to fight illusioners every day on account of how difficult it is to hit the real illusioner with your arrows when you can't see him, and the fact that the illusioners tend to keep their distance from you while attacking, making it hard to perform things like rushdowns unless you can corner them...

    Also, let's not forget about the fact that they are servants of the evokers, at least in this idea, and there's no reason for a servant to be more powerful than his master...

    >What I don't like: 
    Villagers suddenly becoming hostile and attacking would be awkward I think. I know it is frequently requested (on reddit at least), but frankly I don't think it would fit the game.

    Actually, I was thinking that when illusuioners disguise themselves as villagers, it is usually to hide in the mansion's jail cells...  That or they would be disguised as some sort of travelling merchant villager, like the sort found in this idea currently under review:

    https://feedback.minecraft.net/hc/en-us/community/posts/360012407212-Adventurous-Villager-Red-robed-

    >I love the role of illusioners as spies, it just fits their magic, but I think a better way of incorporating them into villages could and should be found.

    The idea of illusioners showing up in villages proper was not part of my original idea, but if this can work, then so be it.

  • 4
    Registered User commented
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    Cool! Then it seems I agree with you on every point. Two things I noticed:

    When you say disadvantage I hope you mean that as a good thing. I think different weapons implemented should have different strengths. The crossbow is raw power and crowd control. The bow is all-around utility. The trident is... during thunderstorms. The illusioners throwing knife could be the weapon of the swashbuckler/rogue. The merits and drawbacks of something both lend to it fitting that role, and I think it being harder to throw long range helps that.
    I think you agree, just wanting to spell out my design philosophy.

    As for villages, yes I am against putting them in but it seems you were never going for that, I apologize for misinterpreting. I was actually considering suggesting that "merchant" style villagers would bear that brunt, but didn't want to unfocus your ideas here so I didn't. But I think its funny you had the same thought. I would like to see merchant villagers too.
    Also, I had not thought about illusioners in the mansion cells but I think it also fits. Great idea again!

    I really love both your posts I've seen, I hope they grow mammoth in a few weeks/ months and are reviewed, because I think both have merit. Good luck!

  • 2
    Registered User commented
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    Well, @Magnus Anderson, if the notification system on the Minecraft Feedback site is as clunky as you say, then, I guess I should mention this stuff on reddit too if need be.  Now for my responses to your comments here:

    >When you say disadvantage I hope you mean that as a good thing. I think different weapons implemented should have different strengths. The crossbow is raw power and crowd control. The bow is all-around utility. The trident is... during thunderstorms. The illusioners throwing knife could be the weapon of the swashbuckler/rogue. The merits and drawbacks of something both lend to it fitting that role, and I think it being harder to throw long range helps that. 
    I think you agree, just wanting to spell out my design philosophy.

    I did mean that different weapons should have different strengths.  I'm glad that you seeing this that way too.  Also, the reason I came up with throwing knives as a base weapon has to do with their potential for usage in stage magic, which as I mentioned, is likely to be among the illusioner's hobbies, seeing as stage magic also relies on illusions.

    >As for villages, yes I am against putting them in but it seems you were never going for that, I apologize for misinterpreting. I was actually considering suggesting that "merchant" style villagers would bear that brunt, but didn't want to unfocus your ideas here so I didn't. But I think its funny you had the same thought. I would like to see merchant villagers too. 

    Heh, it's funny how things work out sometimes...

    >Also, I had not thought about illusioners in the mansion cells but I think it also fits. Great idea again!

    Thanks again!

    >I really love both your posts I've seen, I hope they grow mammoth in a few weeks/ months and are reviewed, because I think both have merit. Good luck!

    Thanks!  If you would like, and these posts are relevant to the topics of reddit or another idea here, feel free to mention them!

  • 2
    Registered User commented
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    I like the idea of illusioners disguising themselves and infiltrating villages, it just fits their nature as magic spies. But I do feel they should really keep the bow and arrows, throwing knives are edgy and feel a bit forced here. However make it so that they shoot spectral arrows instead of normal ones, mostly to continue the idea of a "magic spy" by making it so hostile mobs can track the player more easily. Also their maximum health does need to be lowered, but I'm thinking more around 22 or 18 hit points instead of 24. And perhaps for a unique drop they could yield a new type of totem, the "illusion totem" that summons in 4 silhouettes of the player upon consumption to confuse attacking monsters.

  • 3
    Registered User commented
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    Maybe they should spawn when a wandering trader is struck by lightning, then they will reveal their true identity!

  • 2
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    I'm glad to see someone else has finally commented on this idea after so many months. 

    First, in regards to what you said, @Dinorauria, there are both merits and demerits on the idea of illusioners actually infiltrating villages, as on one hand, it does fit in with their spy theme, but on the other hand villagers already have enough threats to deal with.  Also, I definitely like the idea of spectral arrows and I'll incorporate that into this idea as a default weapon in place of the throwing knives; however, I think they should still have throwing knives on hand, as while they are indeed a bit edgy, they also fit into the spy theme as well.  You mentioned lowering the illusioner's max health to 22 or even 18 HP, but this would be inconsistent with other illagers, who all have 24 HP.  I like the idea of utilizing the illusioner's ability, but having a totem be the item used for this makes it too similar to the evoker, instead, it should probably be a different item, something which more closely ties into the secondary stage magic theme.

    Second, in regards to what you said @Aban Sainz, having a wandering trader turn into an illusioner by means of a lightning strike doesn't seem to fit.  Rather, I think wandering traders should have a chance to be an illusioner in disguise, and these fake traders would drop their disguise upon attacking, being attacked, or being interacted with by players attempting to trade.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    They could be naturally located in woodland mansions in magic rooms along with evokers. 2 Magic rooms would generate every time. They should expand the illusioners powers to putting the nausea effect on players when at low life and knockback said players 10 blocks plus doing 5 damage. This happens to all players within 50 blocks. by low health I mean 6 HP. But they should add to evoker spells also.

  • 3
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    That's the great idea because illusioners will give some challenge to win raids.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I like It. Also add It into Bedrock.(But only add It if Java Illusioner already have a Spawn egg, able to Join Raids, or have a structure base)

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    I see people are again commenting on this idea of mine after about ten months...  I also see that this idea seems to have gotten more attention in general...  I'm not too keen on the nausea idea for illusioners unless evokers have a more powerful ranged ability, but I do like the idea of special secret room where an evoker and and illusioner are found...

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    I don't think the knives would work, instead he should be able to summon Fake Vexes. They would look like real Vexes, but would not change color when they target players, only have 1 heart, and die upon hitting the player, dropping nothing. Instead of hurting the player, they would give them Slowness or Weakness, and Poison on hard mode, that last for 10 seconds on Normal Difficulty. The illusioner would summon two on his own, and summon one with an Evoker, doing it at the same time as the Evoker does as to confuse the player.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    Hmm... well, Glenn Gardiner, I must admit that the throwing knives idea was partially inspired by the equivalent circus act, and the illusioner's outfit kind of makes me think of a stage performer of some sort, so I want to see something that conveys that aspect- even if it is only a hobby...  While I like the idea of fake vexes, I think this should only added if the Evoker also gets more spells.  Also, I can't do much about the post now without having to sacrifice a lot of the information that went into it thanks to the smaller post character limit- yes, this post really is that old.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Hello, it's me, DaffodilAura218, the original poster.  For some reason I'm unable to access my old account here.  Nevertheless, it's great to see that people seem to support this idea!

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    This has some good ideas. The Illusioner being able to disguise as friendly mobs or even normal villagers would be totally in fit with their abilities. Spectral arrows I agree would also make them a bit more unique. I think when approaching a disguised Illusioner, within a certain amount of blocks, they will ambush you. You'll gain the blindness effect (which sometimes happens when fighting them atm) and they will summon clones in a circle around you, one of them being real. Each hit you deal to them should change the way they clone themselves, from a circle, to a group as it currently is, etc. They should also have a spectral effect whenever they go invisible, or possibly just not go invisible at all so they are more about blending in with the illusions. The illusions should also have collision since in the current version they just float all around the place and it looks incomplete.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
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    Okay, given some of the conversations between me and others on Discord concerning this idea, I think I need to delve into and update some aspects of this idea- I would edit the post itself, but since the character limit has gotten smaller, attempting to edit the post further would result in a lot of material having to be deleted.  So here's what's come of those conversations...

    - The illusioner needs to only use spectral arrows on invisible players, as they see the invisibility particles, and try and aim for where those particles are located; furthermore, being afflicted with the glowing effect should result in all witches and illagers seeing your position through walls and attempting to get to your position and attack you.

    - The special amulet that the illusioner drops upon death should be used when it's either the main hand or the off-hand, and certain hostile mobs would attempt to attack the duplicates rather than you yourself, enabling you to safely finish them off.

    - The throwing knives are also craftable, made with a stick and a single copper ingot, and, in addition to a combination of low-damage, and rapid-fire capability, can double as low-damage melee weapons.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
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    Could you make a data pack to implement this? That would be cool.