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Let's talk about Villager Trading! - Cartographer, Armorer (Experimental)

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  • Official comment
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    Registered User commented
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    Thank you to everyone who has sent in their suggestions and feedback regarding the experimental trade change!  We are trying out these changes to rebalance the villager trade system and make it more fair and fun for everyone. However, these changes are not yet final, and they will stay as experimental features while we continue to work on them. We still need your feedback to help us improve and decide, so please continue to let us know what you think of the new trades, what you like and dislike, and what suggestions you have in this thread!

  • 15
    Registered User commented
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    Very interesting changes! I'm glad, I think like most players, that you took on this very important aspect of the game, like trading and enchantments.
    I’m glad that the changes affected not only the Librarian, but also the Armorer, this makes me think that at least the Weaponsmith and the Toolmaker will also receive changes in trade!
    What caught my eye is related to my thoughts! I noticed that the enchantments on the armor that Armorer sells are the same in the same biome. Here I would like more variety, so that, for example, parts of the repair set could be bought in different biomes.

    For example, a helmet with a kidney in the snow, a breastplate in the forest, and so on. This is probably what I would like to see in the game.
    Thanks for the updates, I hope my thoughts and the thoughts of other players will help you!

  • 60
    Registered User commented
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    Cartographer: Having access to more maps is always nice

    Armourer:

    • The master level purchase is a good addition, give armourers a use to those with resources
    • The Taiga Expert trades are rather unique, though I can't understand the pricing of them, given the difference in "diamond gain/loss"
    • The Enchanting of armour is nice for those enchants that have no levels but for those that do I can't see it being that useful, having the gear enchanted in anyway blocks enchanting table usage so to me it would be a trip to the grindstone. personally feel that all enchants they offer should be one below the enchants max level (if it has levels) e.g. Protection 3, such does not invalidate other methods of getting enchants but makes this method have a good use case which it's really lacking currently

    On that for librarians, really prefer how the Librarian's Balance Datapack did it; Librarians only sell basic enchants, but will sell any enchanted book you can place on their lectern so you actually have to go out and get it yourself first, making mending a challenge than a tedium (The current plan just makes it a different tedium) Such effect could be limited to master level

    The difficulty I see with doing this in vanilla is the communicating this to the player, perhaps on levelling up to master they will place a low level enchanted book on their lectern (assuming one is not already there then just sell a copy of it) and have their master trade be of that book, till a player changes out the book.

  • 272
    Registered User commented
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    The villager changes are simply not fun. They make the game a grind, and in some cases (limited world border, flatworld, etc.) certain trades will be impossible. Casual players do not need the current system taken away from them just because enfrancised players know how to use it optimally. Villagers as they are make the game more fun, allow for different playstyles, and do not force you to breed and transport villagers from around the world just to get the trades you want.

  • 190
    Registered User commented
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    Making diamond armour no longer renewable is a step back in my opinion. I never cared much about diamonds being unrenewable, because they were not needed in large amounts and basically not at all in late game of technical playthroughs. But armour is always needed and there will always be some that breaks or gets lost, so this change adds a constant chore to have to go back to branch-mining over and over again forever. This is exactly the reason why I never use Netherite armour. But downgrading to iron is not a great option.
    There aren't even any alternative ways to get diamonds, only mining (or loot chests, but that takes much longer). Iron at least occurs underground, in various loot chests, drops from golems and zombies, is given by piglins and armour smelts to a little bit of it, so you can choose how you want to play to obtain it. That is not the case for diamonds. In most Skyblock or Superflat playthroughs it is even impossible to obtain them and therefore it would also be impossible to get diamond armour.
    I think the trading change itself could be good, but only if it's accompanied by some way to renewably obtain diamonds.
    I like the cartographer changes and the earlier librarian changes. I have no strong feelings one way or the other for the rest of the villager changes.

  • 82
    Registered User commented
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    While I really like the addition of the new Maps to different villages the updated Cartographer sells I think that there should also be Explorer Maps leading to rarer Biomes a player might not find so easily like, but not limited to:

    • definetly Mushroom Fields
    • Flower Forest
    • Cherry Grove
    • Ice Spikes
    • maybe even Badlands
    • etc

    Even though these Biomes don't all have special structures I think that these additions would make the Cartographer more interesting to players searching for features like Items, Blocks or Biome properties (no Mob spawning in Mushroom Fields) only rare Biomes provide.

  • 25
    Registered User commented
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    I really like that buying diamond armor now costs a few diamonds, though I wish this applied to buying tools as well. Having to mine but getting a discount via villagers seems like a nice middle ground, players simply buying their way out of playing a core part of the game gets really boring over time and made me less interested in playing the game at all.

  • 36
    Registered User commented
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    I don't really mind about the biome system, it gives the villagers some complexity they needed. Yet I don't get the new trades, most of the villager gameplay is about making unrenewable stuff renewable, i. e. diamond armor diamond. Diamonts aren't as scarse as they used to, but still not renewable, that's the same reason why I don't duplicate armor trims or why elytras are so valuable, not because the rarity, but because when you need to get more no matter how easy or hard it just keeps needing to explore more, taking everything farther and making the world heavier. I'd rather have to sell multiple different items or making armor more expensive, but not sacrificing a now renewable resource as diamonds.

  • 17
    Registered User commented
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    These are much better changes relative to the Librarian changes.

    For the Cartographer, rather than just sending people to different Biomes, what if you followed along the lines of how you get sent to a Woodland Mansion? Cartographers could sell Maps for Structures such as Mineshafts, Jungle/Desert Temples, Igloos, Witch Huts, and Ancient Cities. Maybe even add a new type of Villager for the Nether to help find Structures and Biomes there. Just sending someone to a Biome is fairly bland, especially when most Biomes already have Structures.

    The Armorer concept is good, but I feel like you should add more options of Blocks to sell such as Copper and Gold. I also feel like the Iron Block isn't as worthwhile as is at 4 Emeralds. I think 5-7 would be more appropriate. Copper could be 3-4 and Gold could be 20-25. Something else I wish to address is the Enchantments on the Armor being a bit on the weak side. I understand not wanting to give Max Enchantments, but level 1 on each is pretty bland. Maybe increase then to 2 and up the cost a bit?

  • 19
    Registered User commented
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    Overall, I like the changes. Many people were concerned about the changes regarding mending, and the occasional difficulty in finding specific biomes, and I think the changes to the Cartographer provide a pretty good option for that. 

    Additionally, I really like the changes made to Armorer villagers. It makes iron farms a little easier to get started while also slightly nerfing them. The final trade for the Iron block is also really cool, rewarding investing into a villager long term. 
    I don't mind having to pay a few diamonds for the diamond armor, I thought the previous trades were a bit too powerful. Some people may take issue with it if they don't want to mine for diamonds, but I don't think that's a reasonably complaint.
    I also like the Diamond block trade at Taiga's mastery. It gives people who don't know villagers well to still get plenty of emeralds for whatever they may need.

    The only issue I have with the Armorer changes is that the Expert tier is pretty lackluster (excluding taiga, I love the taiga expert trades). Iron armor isn't used for particularly long, so only having unbreaking I is a bit underwhelming. Maybe increase the enchant level to 2?

    As a final note, please don't forget about trident and crossbow enchants. Having quick charge in outposts is really cool, so maybe trident enchants could appear in ocean ruins?

  • 21
    Registered User commented
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    The new cartographer maps are great, especially since it looks like the biome-specific villager changes aren't going away.

    The enchanted book loot changes are okay, though Efficiency and Unbreaking are common on the enchanting table and I don't think anyone cares about Quick Charge.

    And the armorer changes... I mean, it's an interesting idea, and probably more balanced, but now villagers feel a bit too nerfed. Yes, it's nice that armorers now always buy iron, but spreading armor trades across biomes? With really bad enchantments on them? In the time it takes to gather the resources for enough emeralds to level up at least three armorers (unless you want cursed armor), as well as locate villages for the proper biomes, a player could just go mining for diamonds to get enough resources to craft multiple sets of armor. Armorers are now more work than they're worth except for the late game, when diamonds and zombie curings are easier to get. Since the iron armor and shield trades are pretty worthless even early-game, it looks like armorers have become mostly output processors for players' iron farms.

  • 20
    Registered User commented
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    The cartographer and armorer changes look good but I'm still not a fan of tying enchants to specific biomes. 

    I think I'd rather see Librarians be "programable." You either find an enchanting book of the enchant you want or get it off of the enchanting table with some sort of recipe. Then you place that book on the lectern for the librarian and then you can buy copies of that book at a cost of a book and some amount of emeralds, maybe throw in some ink sacs for the ink well. Sort of like the duplication of armor trims. That way you give a better purpose to the lectern and chiseled bookshelves, and stop the lectern randomization mechanic. You still have to find a copy of the book to get it in the first place from some sort of source. Would be cool if you could also use a blacksmith to pull an enchantment off of an item and put it onto a book. You could also make it so that a book could do multiple chants at once but at higher costs.

  • 75
    Registered User commented
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    I don't see the woodland mansion map listed, are you taking that away? I'm supposed to just stumble upon one of the rarest structures?

    Stop adding grind for no reason. That's not "balance." This makes armorer pretty much useless. Zombie curing isn't worth the effort. Librarians are a massive grind for little reward with the last one. Instead of making trading posts almost a non-option in what is supposed to be a sandbox game, why not add functionality to the parts that are already useless? NOT by making it's alternatives useless.

    At the very least, put the villager hyper-grind behind a toggle in world-gen. I don't have 200 hours free time. Not on easy. This isn't a balance and doesn't make it "harder." just more tedious.

  • 140
    Registered User commented
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    How many people are really asking you to change villagers? Remove the stacked zombie trades and make emeralds a bit more difficult to come by and problem solved. Instead just making the game more grindy when it's already a grind is just annoying.

     

    Maybe instead continue to focus on new redstone mechanics, revamping old biomes and dimensions (the end anyone) and introducing stuff people have been asking for, for a long time. Concrete stairs and slabs anyone?

    I really do not understand the focus on this area of the game. Feels very much like one or two people at Mojang have got something into their heads and are determined to press on with regardless of the general consensus.

     

     

  • 105
    Registered User commented
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    I feel like some fundamental changes need to occur first before essentially nerfing villager trades. Especially if we are going to need to move them around. It needs to be easier to transport villagers, bottom line. This isn't really a problem of not having the tools however, as we have minecarts, boats, and of course the option to just push them, but the problem is their behavior. Villagers often run away for no apparent reason, will often go to the wrong spot, or be tied to a work station much farther than the one in front of them despite never visiting it (same goes for beds). We need to fix Villager AI (along with other mobs while we are at it). That way this idea of needed villagers in specific areas doesn't sound so bad anymore. 

    Then I think we should tackle a trading rebalance, which IMO, doesn't really need to happen since as another user stated "Casual players do not need the current system taken away from them just because enfranchised players know how to use it optimally". Especially in a world where Mending is frankly impossibly hard to come by, even with a theoretical loot table adjustment. 

  • 72
    Registered User commented
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    I am going to discuss my thoughts on the villager changes added in the new experimental changes.

    1. New Village Types: Jungle and Swamp. They don't have actual forms, but they probably will soon which will be good if there is new content.

    2. The Enchant Book Change: The villagers were the only way to consistently get the enchant books, and it has been changed so that you must venture to all of the different types of villages. This is a bad change, it doesn't make the game more fun or add new content, it takes the current content and stretches it super thin. It's especially detrimental to smaller servers that need a world border. Provide a new way to consistently get enchants. I do not mind if they are harder to obtain, but it should not be so tedious.

    3. The Diamond Armor Trade: Needing diamonds to get the diamond armor almost makes sense. Almost. Getting diamonds wasn't that hard before the Caves and Cliffs update. But since that update, mining has become much more difficult as open caves mean players immediately get swarmed by large amounts of mobs and die quickly even if you have diamond armor on. So is Diamond Armor really worth the mining trip and dying? What about people who don't enjoy mining? Should they be forced to do it just to get that armor? The villagers solved this problem by having an alternate method of getting Diamond armor. You can make diamonds easier to get, make diamonds more common, and add a new armor that's harder to get, or simply revert this change.

  • 14
    Registered User commented
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    the cartographer and structure loot changes are excellent additions, but i am not so sure about some of the armorer changes, some of those complaines are :


    - 4 emeralds for an iron block is way too little
    - being able to buy every piece of diamond armor from every villager type is essential
    - i understand the cursed savanna armor idea, but even with the reduced prices, curse of biding is way too much of a downside, i am afraid this will make savanna villagers be avoided like plague

    my propositions to solve those problemes are :
    - either: give more value to iron blocks (somwhere between 8 and 12 emeralds per block), or (as someone else said and i think is a great idea) make them buy copper blocks instead of iron ones
    - let every villager type sell every diamond armor piece (for convinence, since needing diamonds to buy armor is already a good enough nerf)
    - and ... i am not sure sure about this one, an easy change would be change binding to vanishing, but it will clash with the savanna lore ... maybe they could sell damaged armor for cheaper ? ... oooor, you could sell diamond armor for diamonds ! (this will give more value to armor found in loot chests after the player is maxed out ! and will give more raw diamonds to trade with other armorers !)

    with this said, every other changes is welcome and i am looking forward to future changes, also, some past problems still need to be adressed, like the tediousness of moving villagers and the level cap of anvils, but i have faith

  • 10
    Registered User commented
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    I love that the villagers are being rebuffed, but I don’t think it’s being done right, so her are some ways to make it better:
    1. Instead of having biome specific books, librarians should buy an “enchanted book” (in one of the 1.14 snapshots, librarians used to sell enchanted books without enchants such as unbreaking on them) and an extra item for the enchantment which varies with the level, for example, for mending you would require an enchanted book and 3 bottles o’ enchanting, for a fire aspect book, you would require blaze rods fire aspect 1 = 2 rods and fire aspect 2 = 4 rods.
    2. You can acquire an enchanted book by disenchanting a normal enchanted book, like unbreaking, an enchanted book varies based on the level of enchantment, for example if you disenchanted efficiency 1 or 2 you would get a lesser enchanted book, if you disenchanted efficiency 3 or 4 you would get an enchanted book and if you disenchanted efficiency 5 you would get a greater enchanted book, and the higher the level of the enchantment, the higher the level of the “enchanted book “ is required when trading with a librarian.

  • 7
    Registered User commented
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    I like all changes about the villager trading systen.

  • 33
    Registered User commented
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    I think jungle and swamp villages need to be added. There's currently no in-game hints that villagers can reproduce or that villagers born in new biomes will take on that biome's features. Moving villagers is a difficult task especially over long distances.

  • 17
    Registered User commented
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    2 more little propositions :

    - let the compass point toward the north instead of the world spawn, just to be able to use explorer maps without having to look at the F3 screen

    - put the iron block trade in journeyman or novice instead of master, so that the two diamond armor pieces are always guaranteed

    much love <3

  • 37
    Registered User commented
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    New maps are great, no strong feeling about Armorer change except who wants curse of binding?

    But all of the changes is based on the Biome-dependent trade idea, which clearly disliked by the community.

    If it won't going away, I would like to see:

    • Easier and faster ways to transport villagers. e.g. Item to lure villagers/ pay them to follow players, Minecarts overhauls including coupling and Boat towage for transporting multiple mobs. So bringing villagers to the Jungle/ to Swamp/ back to main base will be easier.
    • In-game hints (e.g. Achievement) to tell new/casual players two things: 1. Level up certain villagers to master level, just to access unique trades. 2. Build villages in Jungle and Swamp. Because no way they could figure out all of this without hints.
    • Or just scrap the Biome-Dependent trade idea.
  • 25
    Registered User commented
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    I think the Cartographer selling more maps is a great change. That will ensure that players will be able to find biomes they need for the new villager trades. Maybe max-level can even sell maps for rare structures like ancient cities?

    There is still the issue of actually transporting villagers to those biomes once you've found them, though, and villagers are notoriously difficult to travel with. Getting villagers to jungle or swamp biomes, for example, will likely require players to build railways through the nether. Which isn't the worst thing, especially if players can access the nether roof, but that can still be frustrating to have to build. Perhaps there can be some new behavior introduced to a villager to make this easier... maybe if a villager doesn't have a workstation and isn't in a village, a player can lure it around using an emerald? Or maybe they'll just naturally loiter near a player in that case, if the player doesn't sprint out of their following range. That way, a player could lead them between villages easier.

    Finally, this is more of a Librarian-related idea, but given that max-level books will be harder to come by, combining things in an anvil should be made easier. The exp limit is old and unappreciated and arbitrary. My opinion is that it shouldn't exist at all, and that compounding experience cost should only occur when a new type of enchantment is added. E.g. sharp 1 + sharp 1 doesn't cost extra, but sharp 1 + fire aspect 1 does.

  • 14
    Registered User commented
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    The armorer villager changes are pretty genius in my opinion

    It's somewhat awkward that you have to buy the exact same map from Cartographers to level up them faster though. But I'm not sure if it needs to be changed.

    I have two ideas

    1. Add option to reroll the map trade

    2. Change the explorer maps lvl to M4ster, so that you don' have to buy duplicate maps to level up

  • 61
    Registered User commented
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    Just to add some of these changes are really poorly thought out for long running multiplayer servers that have world borders. The world size is already a major issue that is only resolvable with frequent chunk trimming using 3rd party tools.

     

    Forcing players to explore more favours those that join servers earlier in their lifecycle as well making long term servers less viable without using mods or commands.

     

    On top of that how will this effect long term servers with multiple villager trading halls already in place?

  • 8
    Registered User commented
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    I think this is one of the best Minecraft Updates I have ever seen. Not only the Problem with too cheap Diamond-Armor and Entchantments got fixed but also different Villages was given an new use. I would love to see some new Villager jobs (like a Beekeeper or lumberjack) in the following Upgrades to.
    Keep up the good work!!

  • 96
    Registered User commented
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    This is getting worse and worse Why you making the game so hard now ?
    There are so many other things to fix .The catograph change is nice but why you shoud buy a diamond armor with extra diamonds if you could get them all in one mine without paying emeralds. Most players will not manage to defeat the ender dragon for this it will only be more difficult and time consuming which reduces the fun factor so you should not spend 5 hours on it getting diamond armor because there's a lot more to discover than a diamond armor

  • 30
    Registered User commented
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    One suggestion: villagers should sell maps that lead to ancient.
    Another: I still think enchants that librarians sell should be max level so fortune 3 instead of 2, efficiency 5 instead of 3 and so on

  • 32
    Registered User commented
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    Cartographer: Really nice way to balance out biome-specific trades
    
    Librarian: I like the idea of the extra challenge in getting all books, but it should be possible to actually get all books, at all levels. It just doesn't makes sense that Master-tier trades aren't max level.
    
    Armourer: Again, the idea of different types of trades in different biomes is nice, but I think the enchantments are quite lacking. Also, about the fact that diamonds are required... I get that diamonds should be still useful, but Armour Trims/Upgrade Templates is enough. Requiring diamonds to get diamond armour from villagers defeats the whole point of getting diamond armour from villagers. What I suggest is buffing the enchantments slightly (including the ability to get multiple) and getting rid of diamonds from the trade in one of the biomes, but instead the armour has weak or no enchantments.
  • 4
    Registered User commented
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    i think these changes are pretty good, my one suggestion would be that sharpness and efficiency get changed to being at least lvl 4 for the master librarian trades