Please remember this category is for features inside the latest pre-release only. To make a new suggestion for Java (like a block or gameplay suggestion), please use the appropriate category for your suggestion.

3

Remove attribute swapping

3 Comments

Please sign in to leave a comment.

Sorted by oldest
  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Some counters I saw/foresee

    •  "It takes skill"/"I practiced so much"/"People are used to it": Yes, it requires skill: but requiring mechanical skill or being "the meta" isn't enough to make a mechanic healthy. As a silly example: click three times in a row with precisely 50ms between inputs, you get Resistance III for 1 minute. This takes skill, you can practice it; and yet it wouldn't be good for the game.
    • "It will break all of PvP"/"The game will die": Theatrics. Some gamemodes are unaffected (e.g. sword). Builders and redstoners most likely do not care. It's almost egotistical to suppose that PvP is the only—or even main—way people play.
    • "Nether roof and quasi-connectivety weren't patched": They are not even comparable. Neither require mechanical skill, neither are multiplayer-related (let alone PvP), and they do not harm the game's balance. Their only common point is being unintuitive.
    • "It will ruin spear/mace/shield": Mace PvP will be fine, the mace is not dead just because you can't make it have 8 attack damage from your sword. For the spear, it will certainly remove an admittedly interesting movement mechanic that I wouldn't mind being re-added in a less hacky way. And for the shield, I will concede that shields are a little clunky on both sides of the encounter. But an item/enchant shouldn't need a bug to be viable, and inversely, plenty of things in this game are already pointless. (e.g. projectile protection, most tipped arrows)
  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    I won't bother with low-hanging fruit like "you're just mad cause you can't do it", "it will change pvp", "it will upset people", "people will stay on 26.1", or "plugins will add it back anyways" because they're nothing-burger arguments. ("no comment", "mace & spear changed pvp", "mojang breathes and people cry for murder", "ok cool", "go for it; this is about the base game")

    Gamerule might be an acceptable middle-ground.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Update: as more people get involved and new details come out, it seems as if the implemented fix messes up the timings in other areas of the game, very notably when it comes to being able to use an item that was just switched to. This is not a good thing, but both sides should keep in mind that while attribute swapping and being able to use an item on the same tick you switch to it may be caused by the same code, they are not the same mechanic. The former should stay patched, but I am of the opinion that the latter should stay as it was before this. A comment by user “Z0rty” and the one above it on the original bug report summarize both the issue & alternate fix well: https://bugs.mojang.com/browse/MC/issues/MC-28289

    For reference, PaperMC implements the proposed method mostly correctly, on line 1421 (& others) of paper-server/patches/sources/net/minecraft/server/network/ServerGamePacketListenerImpl.java.patch. (no GitHub link cause the forum doesn't want them). It seems to not patch reach-hitting—attribute-swapping to a spear to apply its special range to another item's attack, so the fix can't just be copy-pasted; but it is a start.

    I think that removing the latter (aka being able to use an item you just switched to) would elevate the negative consequences too high (including for regular players who don’t even know what attribute swapping is; because the hotbar timings affect everyone), since it would negatively impact things like pearl catching, insta-carting, hit crystalling, and fast anchoring to name a few. These mechanics, unlike attribute swapping, don't rest solely on a foundation of bugs, and are instead a purposeful application of intended mechanics.