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(Bedrock) Please give attention to free and open player creativity in development

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  • 0
    Bilbo Baggins commented
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    To sum it up:  You want people to be able to publish mods, skins, and worlds without having to do any complicated string-pulling with Mojang.

  • 0
    xxMGZxx commented
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    Yes, but I was also saying that players should have better development features. Marketplace map development teams have more development options than even vanilla java edition does (I've seen it in a few maps now). Mojang at least could have added the scoreboard and NBT to Bedrock in the time they set up the dev tools for the marketplace. The goal of this post is to encourage Mojang to keep Minecraft about creativity for anyone, even devs without a business.

  • 0
    tryashtar commented
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    Marketplace developers have the exact same mapmaking tools that regular players do. It's hard to tell if your point is that Bedrock mapmaking tools are better or worse.

  • 0
    xxMGZxx commented
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    Tryashtar, as far as I know that is incorrect. Have you even seen half of the maps available on the Bedrock marketplace? You can't do half of the things available there on creative or in command blocks! Regular players do not have the same features as marketplace developers. If you know otherwise please provide solutions to each of these questions (or a download link to a full-functioning api—not the scripting api because that pales in comparison—that has all of these features, something I could not find online):

    1. Ingame NBT editing with commands or an api (the ability to change texts on signs, tool, armor, and weapon enchantments and durability, stuff inside chests and other tile entities, etc.)
    2. Scoreboard features (similar to java), variable manipulation, timers (storing data into variables, teams, player event tracking, etc.)
    3. Custom GUI functionality (buttons, inputs, variable displayers, etc. I fell like this isn't as important as the other two but is definitely visible in many marketplace maps)

    Thank you for commenting, but I do not know if you haven't done enough research to understand what I am referring to or know of an api openly available to the public that can do all of these things. Looking at your profile you certainly know what features I am talking about that are in Java but not in Bedrock. I am talking about Bedrock, not Java edition. The reason for creating this post is because I feel like Mojang is holding special things and tools back from their development community and only offering them to people who enter into a business partnership with them. They took a step in the right direction with the scripting api, but they ought to push forward with giving the community more control over the game.

  • 0
    tryashtar commented
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    I am rather experienced in mapmaking in both editions. If there is a particular map you have played with a feature you believe is locked behind some special marketplace privilege, feel free to ask and I can explain how it's done! :)

    1. You are correct that unfortunately Bedrock edition does not allow any NBT editing in-game with commands. All NBT editing must be done with external software such as MCC toolchest during development time.

    2. Bedrock does indeed have scoreboards now, but the only criteria is dummy.

    3. This would be easier to answer if I knew the map you were referring to. But in general Bedrock does provide support for modifying UI files in a resource pack.

    Indeed, limiting yourself to mere command blocks is not sufficient to make a map of marketplace caliber; they use world editing tools and behavior/resource packs extensively, but nothing that a regular player couldn't do as well.

    (apologies for the late reply, I didn't get a notification :P)

  • 0
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    I’m no expert on the subject, but I’m pretty sure that Marketplace mapmakers are the only people who can make behavior packs.

  • 0
    tryashtar commented
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    What's stopping you? :D

    https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Tutorials/Creating_behavior_packs

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    xxMGZxx commented
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    Yes, I am aware of behavior packs, but even with them and pre-game NBT modification I believe you lack the ability to develop fully what Marketplace developers can. Marketplace developers use more than just pre-world NBT editing in their maps; I've seen sign text change before in specific maps while the map was running, which is obviously NBT editing. I couldn't find the specific map I am referring to on the marketplace, but the video I watched on it is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNiILbxuo8U; position of the chat and other specific features reveal that this is Bedrock and not Java. Servers contain the GUI I'm referring to. Since you say you do have experience in developing maps for Bedrock, I would like to see your view on how something like this is done while the map is running, because that is part of what I am asking for here in this post. You could also post a few links if you want. Features like this are what make me skeptical that Mojang is holding back specific tools from the ordinary community and providing them to partners exclusively.

    Also, the notifications for this page are definitely a bit annoying; I haven't gotten a single email about any comments on this post even though am following it. lol

  • 0
    tryashtar commented
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    For servers I believe you are right, to my knowledge they use third-party software to expose lots of extra functionality that you could never get in singleplayer or with mere behavior packs/commands; equivalent to the types of plugins you would see on java servers. Although I can't speak too much on their relationship with microsoft, I know that at the very least they enable extra things like purchasing nonsense in-game (probably related to the GUI you mention).

    As for the map in that video, that guy was too painful to watch haha, but based on your description, my guess is that the signs are simply cloned in from existing templates.

    I found the map on the marketplace (called Restaurant Simulator - Head Chef). Fortunately the command blocks were predictably at (0, 0), and there I indeed found templates for the signs.

    (sorry about the colossal image, I'm pretty sure you can't resize them on this mess of a website)

    Finding the actual /clone command itself was a bit more complicated. The upgrade button summons a zombie horse. After some time, I found a chain of command blocks labelled "upg listener" somewhere. It makes zombie horses check a block beneath them (at the bottom of the world, seemingly representing the current status of the upgrade), then activates another chain.

    And that is where I found it, the commands to clone the new sign, remove experience from the player, and so on.

    Aha! Theory right, with a bit of poking. You are very right that mapmakers would love NBT access and other things, but alas we must put up with convoluted workarounds.

  • 0
    xxMGZxx commented
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    Ooooohhhhh! So the developers practically Hypixeled the game. Thanks for doing that research; poking around command block maps can be tedious sometimes. I had a feeling cloning might have been involved after I submitted my comment, but I thought it was more nbt editing than anything else. I suppose then what I'd be saying now is just that Bedrock edition tools are extremely limited compared to Java, not that ordinary players have any less tools than paid developers on Windows 10. Still, doing this stuff on consoles is extremely limited, since you can't see the world files (probably for control reasons and to block achievement hungry players from cheating) or make servers; regardless, I would prefer better tools over achievements.

  • 0
    tryashtar commented
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    The feeling is mutual :D

  • 0
    PCScreen commented
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    This thread kinda proves how misinformed the java community is about bedrock, especially with the whole "I believe only partners can make behavior packs" claim. You know, stuff you could fact check with less than a minute of research. If you want free content, you can get access to it on sites like mcpedl.com or by making it yourself. There are tools made by the community that should make your job easier