The Stamina Bar
Every player can have 50 points of stamina that regenerates every tick, meaning that it takes a maximum of 2.5 seconds to refill.
From Attack Speed Value to Stamina Value (Calculation)
A diamond sword has an attack speed of 1.6, which means, you can hit 1.6 times in 1 second. So How much time does it take to hit once?
(1/1.6)=(10/16)=(5/8)=0.625
1 tick = (1/20) seconds = 0.05 seconds
0.625 seconds = 12.5 ticks
So every sword swing will use 12 stamina points, meaning that after 5 spam clicks, your stamina will completely run out.
In the case of an axe with 0.9 attack speed,
(1/0.9)=(10/9)=1.1111....
1.1111.... seconds = 22.2222.... ticks
One axe swing will use 22 stamina points, meaning that 3 spam clicks will drain the stamina bar.
Exhaustion
When the stamina bar hits 0, you will get exhausted, and will get a weakness-like effect that disables the ability to attack. It takes an additional 3.5 seconds to start recovering the points plus the 2.5 second stamina regeneration time, making the exhaustion last for a whapping 6 seconds.
HUD
Similar to how we used to have, there would be 2 attack indicators available in the options.
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When you choose to put your indicator in the hotbar, it will be placed in between the xp bar and the hotbar. The design is also similar to the xp bar.
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The crosshair indicator would be a decrease meter instead of an increase meter. Every time you swing your weapon, a bar which has its length depending on the stamina level will appear and get lengthened. The decrease will indicate the stamina recovery. When it reaches 50, the bar will turn red, and it'll never disappear until the exhaustion runs out.
How Combat Will Become
Spam attacks will be a viable way to attack players out of guard, dealing maximum damage before the apponent gets ready. However, if the combat takes longer, everyone will be forced to use timed attacks, since there is no need to consider stamina if you obey cooldown.
TL;DR: Read the text in bold.
21 Comments
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Forget 1.8-reversion toggles or gamerules. I like this idea much more. I assume that, under your ideas, the cooldown mechanism currently shown in the crosshair would be removed in favor of the stamina bar? Or is it just the decreased damage of spam attacks that will be removed? Either way, I could definitely live with this. I can see PVPers having to decide between spam attacks vs. timed attacks depending on how low their opponent's health is, too, which sounds really interesting.
My only question: when you say "weakness-like effect", do you mean an actual status effect, or simply an inability to swing? I'd much rather not have it be the former. All in all, thanks for the post and I hope it gets considered by Mojang!
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Thank you for your vote. I absolutely hate this age old discussion and the lie that gamerules will solve everything. I hope both sides will accept this change.
About your questions, yes, this is a replacement for the current cooldown mechanism, though cooldown will still exist, since you might want to keep your stamina filled. The weakness-like effect caused from stamina depletion will disable the ability to deal damage. You won't be able to swing your weapon at all.
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Of course! So it's not so much that cooldown would be removed and more that the nature of the cooldown would change. Instead of being the time period you have to wait between each swing, it would now be the time period you have to wait before swinging once stamina runs out. Got it. I truly hope your idea gets more attention here :)
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I see a number of problems with this idea, and I think a /gamerule would do a lot more for the community.
There is a very large difference between current 1.8 PvP and being able to attack 2 or 4 times before running out of 'Stamina'. While I get the logic behind making this, I do not feel this mechanic would actually satisfy players anywhere near the point where they would be willing to switch.
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@BigMass5 Apologies if I come across as defensive here, but would you care to list the "number of problems" you see with this idea? I feel that if even a compromise like this one that goes out of its way to cater to both styles of combat is not enough to "actually satisfy [1.8] players", you are asking too much. For me, the bottom line is that if the old spamfest combat style is not in line with Mojang's vision for the game, then we should learn to accept that, not ask for cheap copouts like a reversion gamerule.
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no plz god no ,i like the idea but its not simple , it will lead the game down a hill because all of the community are kids that dont understand easily
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Simpler than scripting out a macro to swing a sword 20 times a second? Simpler than breaking your mouse into smitherines from all these jitters? Simpler than constantly checking for ping?
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This would be better than the current combat system because servers could just make the stamina refill instantly so we can pvp like normal.
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Definitely better than a reversion gamerule. This would allow for some spamming, but not make it completely OP, which is a lot more fair for everyone.
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I thought the same thing (with the exception of the details) . I think that the exhaustion shouldn't last 6 seconds , that is more that enough time for something to kill the player , especially if you are fighting a group of mobs/players. Also why base your stamina consumption upon the already existing attack speed? I think the stamina bar should have a red zone , where your attacks deal half the damage due to exhaustion located at the far left and 1/3 the size of the entire bar, and a green zone were your attacks are normal. The green bar should be exhausted in 5 axe swings or 10 sword swings and the red one in 2 axe swings or 4 sword swings. The red bar recharges in 4 seconds wile the green one recharges in 20 seconds , you can attack as long as you have stamina , all the stamina bar would have 24 units one unit per second .
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Stamina should be an overlay for Hunger. Hunger acts as a stamina cap, and if you exhaust your hunger rate increases.
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Great idea!
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I hope this idea would be more popular because it's the perfect in-between of 1.8 and 1.9.
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what about just a damage reduction instead of completely disabling damage when the stamina runs out? (Plus a damage reduction when hunger is at zero, and when you are at low health)
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This idea is amazing!
It completely solves the problem of the 1.9 combat system not being intuitive or obvious enough! You can't escape the power of a red bar above your hotbar!
I think you should not have the ability to change the HUD display though, it should be the same for all players so it also has a simpler learning-curve to it (instead of "why does he have a bar but that other person does not?"), besides, the second option can be somewhat obstructing, rather than the stamina-bar which in my opinion would fit perfectly inside minecraft!
One question though.. if you have 5 stamina left for example, and you attack with a sword which takes 12 stamina, would the attack then do less damage? or do you just get the inability to swing / weakness-like effect afterwards?
I think both could work, but maybe fans of the old combat would prefer the latter.
Either way, this idea is awesome and Mojang is stupid if they don't consider this!
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@Sky2Tate I think he doesn't mean to use the already existing attack speed for this, but is just using it as demonstration to how the math would work out here. It would obviously require all weapons to have a stamina-cost-value instead of the attack speed.
And I do agree that 6 seconds (3,5 seconds to recover from the 'exhaustion') is far too much, but it does not mean that you can't attack for 6 seconds, but rather something like 3,5 - 4 seconds (longer waiting for heavier weapons like axes).
Best would be that the stamina bar flashes red for 1 or 2 seconds but still fills up like normal (so you can swing your attack like normal afterwards but you can't spam click when the 'exhaustion' is happening)
A sound effect could be played during exhaustion to make it more obvious to the player what is going on (panting or something like that).
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@FreakingChicken You could also make weapons with attributes so they have a stamina-cost of 0 so you can spam attack with those still.
Which would also be useful for mapmakers.
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Interesting, but it would take away the advantage of landing a preemptive strike, because the attacker would have to wait in combat for his points to fill up again.
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I like this mostly, but I think being exhausted shouldn't fully disable attacking, but just make you a lot weaker.
Also, there should be some connection between this and the shield, like stamina getting depleted when you protect against attacks, thus discouraging overuse of the shields, and when stamina runs out, every time you block an attack it will disable the shield for a short time.
And maybe explore the idea of a fixed, but very short delay for attacks? Like, you hit with the sword, and it has a 0.15 second cooldown before you can use it again at all (slower for other weapons), and being exhausted would significantly increase the cooldown, like to 0.3 seconds or 0.4.
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This is great! I love the mathematical approach you put into it. But I would say it also might be a good idea to add a potion effect that increases the amount of stamina you have. Also, are you pushing for a combined walking and combat stamina? Or are they two separate spectrums?
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Interesting idea, and it would be fun to try, but I would like to warn about adding too much nerdy complexity to the game at the same. I was on the alpha testing team for Carbon's Airmech (an action RTS). In those days, the game was a much more faithful remake of Herzog Zwei, albeit with an updated twist. It was devilishly fun and addictive. But then they kept tweaking it with all these ideas—different power and health levels, time rules, constant re-balancing, etc. It became so arcane and overly complex that you needed a PhD to figure it out as a newcomer. It still enjoys a following on Steam, but it's not what it used to be.
We have to remember that the point of playing a game is, ultimately, for fun. Thus far, Minecraft has remained faithful to that rule. Create too many restrictive rules that require a difficult learning curve or just makes things miserable, and you'll alienate new and old players alike.
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