In the latest Snapshot brings in a huge change to how caves are generated in Minecraft, which will make up a major part of Caves & Cliffs later this year. With this being such an important part of the update, we want as much of your feedback as possible! Before you play and let us know what you think, there's a few things to bear in mind:
- All the noise caves (the new caves) will be water-filled from sea level (y63) down to y30. That means many of the lakes on the surface are actually water-filled cave entrances. That will change later, when we have aquifers enabled at all heights.
- No biomes generate yet
- All ore placement at negative Y are tentative and will be updated later.
- There are no larger bodies of lava underground. That will be added later.
- Old worlds currently can't be opened in the new snapshot, because of some world conversion issues. That will be fixed in a future snapshot.
For more information on noise caves, aquifers, and everything else in the latest snapshot, check out the full changelog!
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Maybe some of the noise caves could be underground rivers that form underground waterfalls when they connect into a large noise cave.
I found glaciers that generate way underground under frozen ocean bioms and I absolutly love it. I'm assuming this is a bug howerver i feel like it makes for an amazing feature.
Apart from this I love everything about the new cave generation. the lakes that turn into underwater caves are great and I hope that at least some of them can stay as such.
Cave sizes is also great altouhght I do feel like caves are eighter really small or really big, maybe a medium sized cave could be fitting.
In any case thank you very much for this amazing snapshot and for the not so soon to come amazing update
Because of their massive scale, i think noise caves should make a very small echo sound when you walk around them. Or maybe instead add a small echo sound when you walk around the deep dark.
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I'm the first to vote! I'm the second to follow! now, seriously, those lake openings for caves, they are cool. maybe keep it as a feature (with a chance, of course)? and stretch the water 2 blocks higher, it's not the same level as the ground....
And maybe remove those lazy little lakes and switch them with a little Underwater Noise Cave opening? please...
I love the caves! I think I can give some feedback after playing with them for awhile, I've found a few issues with them.
Here's what I hope changes:
- Aquifers or water bodies have strange delimitations to them and seem to be able to carve into each other. It looks unnatural, you end up with unfinished or floating walls of stone on top of lakes. I'd expect the delimiations to go all the way down.
- Caves are so gosh darn big that you can sometimes see the fog from daylight/sunset/nighttime with a low enough render distance. You can tell the time of day. Maybe caves should have black fog, especially if they end up becoming their own biome!
- Neighboring caves take up a lot more of the mob cap, it'd be worth considering shortening the spawn range from 128 blocks to 96 blocks. Especially for technical players. I think that would help a lot to reduce how much players will have to spawn-proof or light up and could even serve to increase difficulty a bit.
- Geodes really look out of place, and maybe shouldn't surface and be rarer. They should be reserved for upcoming new diamond level.
- I miss Ocean Ravines, man! They were pretty cool, especially with the magma floors.
Here's what I loved or hopes stays the same!
- Aquifers are awesome! Really fun to play around in. I almost drowned a few times while getting greedy. It improves the early game, everything feels fresh.
- Deeper caves!!! And the size is awesome.
- If iron spawned lower down, it could make progression a lot more interesting! Same with lapis.
I love the new cave generation and how random it is. I also like that you can explore a cave without hitting dead ends constantly, though I have two suggestions that I think would greatly improve the noise caves:
- Make smaller caves much more common: Don't decrease the noise cave generation, but make smaller caves (such as the old caves) spawn more abundantly in certain areas. Exploring a large series of small caves is fun, and would help take advantage of the new world depth.
- Make the transition between caves and aquifers more smooth: Aquifers and caves are only separated by about 1 block, making them look very floaty and unnatural. The wall between caves and aquifers should be at least 5 blocks thick. Also, transitions between different local water levels should be less common and more significant; it can be annoying when you're rafting in a cave and you're stopped by a single bar of stone because the local water level changed by 1 block.
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With the new noise caves, as DARKCHILD40 said, underground rivers would be amazing and cool and should without a doubt be added in this update. making diamond rarer is even more of a priority. I think we should keep iron as-is, because currently it is too easy to get as the start of the game. I think this would be a great time to rethink the spawn placement of the overworld ores as you'll have to change it anyway :)
WillyWonka9763 I think that these "problems" were intended and are important to have. Early-Game cave Mining is way too easy right now, the only problems being a couple of skeletons and the occasional lava stream you can bridge over. With huge Caverns, mining is more scary and adventurous, which is something i think almost everyone wants :)
I would LOVE to see glow squids generate in underground lakes, as well as much larger patches of lichen that generate more closer to water.
The only thing I'm skeptical about in this update are the aquifiers. I think that underground lakes and rivers would be a much cooler thing to add than the flooded caves, but that's just me. I also think that the underground rivers/lakes can come with a new plant (or maybe just generate with one of the lush caves plants) and also have more dirt, moss, and glow lichen.
All in all, this was a much better snapshot than 21w05a, and I hope you continue with work like this!
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Love the new caves so far along with the world height and depth increase.!
My feedback/idea to better aid in the caves:
Since Minecraft's total world height is now 384 blocks, and now has the ability to express the height y-value as a negative integer.
To better facilitate the coordinate systems and make it more simple for players to know their current depth in relation to 'sea level' I think that the numbers for world height should be shifted to set sea level to (y-0) so that all caves, and ground below sea level is expressed as a negative value, and above sea level is positive.
My reasoning outside of making it easier for players to know their current depth is this is how we measure height and depth in the real world as a relation to sea level, a mountain is X meters high above sea level, and a cave is X meters deep below sea level. Setting the Y value of sea level to be 0 would mimic this and be a great way for the player base to know their relative positions.
With this change the total height of the world would not change but give the player base a nicer way to read and understand their position.
y 256 Sky height (max height)
y 0 Sea level
y -127 Bedrock (max depth)
Thank you, and keep up the great work dev team!!
I dont think lava should generate in aquafiers. It should only spawn very deep down below (maybe at y -40 or below.) To fix this problem, we should have a new Lava Caves biome that is full of Lava, Magma Cubes, Basalt, and Obsidian.
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The new caves are so cool but they are way too big in my opinion. Early game mining for resources such as diamonds will be more difficult and will take lot more effort and could be demotivating. Going from above ground to under ground could be challenging as well(Early game). Lighting up caves also could be a challenge. Also reaching for ores generated in the ceiling could be annoying after a while. Early game mining without good gear and enchantments will make caving something players might avoid, to get good gear we have to do caving early game. Bedrock at y =0 is perfect -64 is way too deep. When I first saw the new caves I was so amazed and blown away, I was so happy. The developers have done an amazing job but after a while I started releasing small things like I mentioned above. Hope this was helpful in any way.
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I love the increased height of the world and other things such as the sideways long caves but I do have to say I think some of them are way too big. I saw one cave that was so huge like from the bottom was bedrock and at the top was like 50y and I don't think that's too normal in IRL caves. Just want to put that out there because I want larger caves I do but sometimes I think this is a little bit overkill tbh also I could barely find any surface caves where I could starting mining in a survival snapshot world and it took me like 2 days to get iron because I had to dig down also diamond placement needs to be fixed because down below with so much open blocks it's so easy finding diamonds. Furthermore, there is literally no lava pools underground, I can't find one piece of obsidian because of that
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-i hope glow squids spawn in the water caves, and it would be so beneficial if they actually emitted off a light source, i know devs have stated this would require a significant amount of time to develop but personally i really think this would be worth having, especially due to the fact that the caves get so dark. The lichen some-what helps but honestly the caves are really in need of a some-what natural or significant light source to add to the over-all experience when in the caves that isnt a block that the player can use, but helps with the experience when inside caves, like a glowing mushroom.
-Theres alot of statements on twitter about lowering the level in which diamonds spawn due to how overpowering the rate at which they are obtained has become. I fully agree diamonds should be somewhat lowered in level and perhaps spawn less often in general.
-in the water caves there isn't any underwater vegetation such as seagrass, kelp, sea pickles and etc. Atleast not that i have seen, i think that underwater vegetation needs to be added along with an increased rate of which sea pickles spawn underwater in order to help with the light source issues players will now be experiencing when inside the caves.
-personally i would now love to find "underground villages" or an "abandoned village" type of structure in the caves, i think new structures being introduced underground can greatly benefit from all the space thats been added into the caves and it would help with the experience.
I played on this version a couple hours with my friend on survival and we thought that getting a stack of diamonds in 15 minutes might be broken but it was too hard to find lava. Can we have more lava lakes on caves to go more quickly in the Nether ?
Why don’t we make the sea level zero (y=0). Anything above the water level is a plus and anything below the water level is a minus sign. So the whole surface will be measured above the water level as in the real world.
Can we PLEASE have amethyst/lush caves feedback pages? I have a lot to say :p
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If aquifers are going to be as common and vast as seen in these snapshots, there needs to be a new aqua mob that heightens the challenge of traversing here. Something like piranhas for example would be nice to see and add an extra bit of difficulty while roaming these areas. They will attack players swimming and they could also jump out of the water to attack players in boats as well.
Note: this hostile fish will not spawn in lush caves due to the presence of axolotls. However, if axolotls are following the player when traversing aquifers, these hostile fish will leave the player alone. They are terrified of axolotls.
Overall, the new generation is great!
However, there are some things I would like to see changed.
- There are floating lakes underground with only one layer of stone around them, this should be fixed to have more support pillars in generation or underground lakes should only occur on underground cliffs so that they don't float.
- There are too many caves generating into lakes on the surface of the world, it seems like every body of water is a cave access and I can barely find any normal lakes.
- Caves should have entrances that are more like tunnels on the sides of cliffs or hills instead of the bizarre way that they generate like ravines.
- speaking of ravines, I am upset that ocean ravines were removed (the ones with the obsidian and magma) they were great and added a lot of fun to the ocean, plus a source for magma and obsidian. I would like to see these return instead of being completely scrapped.
- This may just be a bug, but the new cave generation has seemed to interfere with the ocean generation. Sand is not generating in coral reefs and there is glow lichen all over the sea floor. The glow lichen may be intentional, but I think it should spawn in caves only instead of all over the ocean floor.
Theres a few of my concerns. I would like to see them resolved in some way, other than that, I am very happy with the new generation (especially the cheese caves!) and the new increased world limits. Its going to be very fun to play around with the cave generation once its more refined!
As someone who just pasted their decade of playing Minecraft just a short while ago. Not to mention posting here for the first time.
These caves are my absolute FAVORITE change made to the world, just beating out the aquatic changes. The world feels awesome and filled with wonder in the way it first felt when first playing it as a kid. There are a few little thoughts however I would love to add as part of my excitement for whats to come.I would love to see some of the sea grass in the Aquifers, maybe in diminishing amounts at deeper levels.
I would love to see the water biome color tints independent to what aquifer they’re in, instead of which biome is above.
I think the glow lichen should be much more abundant in or around the watery areas because they would likely thrive on the moisture, plus it come on, wouldn’t that look cool.
Lastly I would love the see there be a few less mine shafts, and have them focus on connecting large caves or having some sort of path to lead you to something cool like a geode or a large ore vein or maybe some of that wacky archeology business you guys have coming; instead of just snaking around like caves themselves.
That’s all I have to add. I cannot wait to see what you all are working on! This game has been my favorite game for half of my life. I do not even under stand how it hasn’t gotten old, it must be magic or something. Thank you guys for always putting your all into amazing new features!
- long time fanDisappointed caves have been made smaller in this snapshot as concluded by my testing results by comparison with the previous snapshot. I thought Caves were made rarer, not smaller, but I found the following results:
I compared a large cave system I found in 21w06a with 21w07a (the exact same seed and coords). This particular cave system in 21w06a was much more freely connected with tunnels and had more volume in certain parts of the cave, and in some parts, it was really epic the way massive tunnels connected.Interestingly in 21w07a, the cave features had been maintained including certain passageways and shapes, but in general I found the volume had decreased, and there were certain pockets that weren't connected. After flying around, comparing coords and using the unmined third party tool to analyze cave view below Y0 I saw that it had vastly decreased in size and once more there were pockets that weren't connected to the main cave system. The overall immensity of the cave had been lost (even though it was still sizable in places).
I'm loving the new cave generation in general but I was sad to see this, after seeing 21w06a I was really hoping the immensity of the caves would be retained. I'm fine with making them a little rarer though (even though I still actually preferred the abundance of caves in 21w06a), but not shrinking the sizes of the caves themselves.
i like the new update and i think you should add a new light source thats brighter than torches to light more area or make torches brighter that would make exploring the caves easier but i like the new cave generation and how big they are and will there be more structures
I think the noise caves were nerfed a bit too much, but what's really upsetting is that there were no smaller caves added to compensate for the reduced noise caves. The noise caves are now mostly large tunnels, and the smaller caves weren't touched at all despite the world depth increase, making the underground even more empty. In terms of relativity, the density of caves is no higher than 1.16.5, kind of ruining the point of the cave update.
To fix this, more caves should generate in the world, whether they're large, small, or something in between.
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Personally, I feel like 21w07 made the big caves a bit too rare. However, I think that rather than reverting making the big caves bigger (on the horizontal axis) would fix the problem. I do like rare things in Minecraft and having these caves as a rare feature is great, however as of now when you do find them, they are not as impressive as in the previous snapshot.
A second, in my opinion important point, is that the new caves just don't seem to connect like to old ones. Before it was easy enough to find really long cave networks of many caves connecting, eventually leading you to the bottom of the world without breaking a single block. To make this happen in the new caves as well, eighter the old caves should spawn bellow y 0 or the new caves need to be longer to have more intersections.
In summary, Big caves are now too rare/not big enough and the new caves don't connect enough.
P.S. I love the new ores and the new grimstone as well as the way all of these generate. The caves need tweaking but I'm sure the final result will be breathtaking.
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I agree with the people saying that the new caves in 21w07a are a massive downgrade from the previous snapshot.
99% of the videos of 21w06a I saw included some version of people saying "this is amazing" while *flying* through a wonderful new underground world. That wouldn't be possible in the current implementation. The caves in 21w07a feel like nothing more than a tiny, insubstantial upgrade compared to 1.16 and aren't at all following the vision you guys showed us during Minecon Live.
Really hope this was just overcompensation. Please bring back the big noise caves from 21w06a. They are not nearly big or numerous enough right now. I want to feel like I am entering a dwarven cave, not just some random air pocket in the ground.
Someone here mentioned how cool it would be to have the regular, "old" caves connect to the new ones so you are guided from the surface down to bedrock. Being able to really explore this new "dimension" would be amazing.
Could you also please rethink how you approach negative coordinates? If anything, the point where + and - coords meet should be the surface, sea level in the real world. But I'd prefer if bedrock was still zero and everything above was positive, right up to build limit. (The sea level model follows the real world, the latter approach is more logical within the Minecraft world. The current implementation doesn't make sense in either world.)
Also, more light is desperately needed in that ocean of grimstone. ;-)
Thanks for reading this <3@SteveNoobGeek Ores and lava generation will be added in the future, right now lava is bugged. I'd like to think that Iron, Lapis and Diamond ore distribution gets revised to make the early game feel like more of a journey
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Noise caves get a bit repetitve after some time. I love that they are HUUUGE, but I think those caves could have tunnels to other Noise caves or to the traditional tunnel caves. MAKE THEM GO UP AND DOWN! The underground is DOUBLED, the developers can work with 100 blocks of heigh! Do it, friend.
For Aquifers, I want underwater tunnels with air-pockets, making fun ways to get to other tunnels and Noise caves
Flew around in a world in a 21w07a world. I couldn't find a single massive, open cavern like what I could find in 21w06a.
While I understand that these caverns could be tweaked, the massive scale and open-ness is what mattered and it feels like this was completely changed for the worse. Either these types of caves are now way too rare, since I couldn't find a single one, or they were made much, much smaller since I did find similar looking caves with pillars that were a lot smaller and felt more closed-in.
I want this change reverted and for the massive, open caves to be more common again, the grand open-ness of the caverns are exactly what I like the most about this update.
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DarkstalkerMoon I disagree with decreasing the noise caves. Despite how huge these caves seem, they don't actually take up that much space underground because they're so spread out. We should instead increase the amount of smaller caves such as the old cave generation. There is plenty of space underground and the developers should take advantage of it.I was flying around in spectator and noticed that the huge caves have all but vanished in the new snapshot, and I personally think that was a huge mistake, as my favourite feature from the previous snapshot was a huge cave that I found with several aquifers at different levels, giving it a magical feel to it. I mostly see old caves and a few of the new spaghetti caves but it looks very similar to the old generation.
Personally I think there need to be more huge caves and more aquifers in large caves, for magical looking underwater lakes. I also think the old caves should blend more with the new caves so that it doesn't look like it currently does, with larger caves spawning near the bottom and small caves being at the top. Also lava looks quite ugly falling from the ceilings, and personally I would limit its spawing to bellow y=-30.
I wish the bigger caves were back
the aquifires are weird because the walls don't reach the bottom which looks extremely weird when swimming but otherwise it looks great
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