Back to minecraftBack to minecraft.net

This category is for the special Experimental Combat Snapshot feedback only and features that exist in this snapshot only. This category is temporary and WILL be archived when we have a new snapshot to discuss. This keeps your feedback relevant, fresh, and current. Please focus on features that are IN the release and do not suggest new features/weapons/mechanics here. Thank you.

← Experimental Combat Snapshot 8
46
Follow

The Axe Needs to be Seriously Buffed

So, I've spent hours testing combat test 8c, and I found one very major problem that people haven't been addressing much.

Here's a simple situation that I get in way too often (I sadly do get in this situation just about every time I'm in the nether). You have iron armor/tools/weapons, you're in the nether, you punch a zombified piglin. You are then swarmed.

  • An iron hoe works well enough, it has good reach, though it is a little low on DPS.
  • An iron sword is a very good choice.
  • An iron axe is completely useless in this situation.

Seriously, why use an axe? It has less DPS and less reach! Give me one reason why I should use it in pve. Admittedly, in pvp it does disable shields. But other than that, it is completely underpowered. Here is my solution: Buff axes to deal 4 more damage than swords. They currently deal 1 more damage. This will result in axes actually having a use, having slightly more DPS than swords.

Need one more reason as to why axes are underpowered? Ever tried using a netherite pickaxe in pve? It works better than a netherite axe! Sure, it has one less DPS, but that is very little less. It's actually better in most scenarios because it's higher speed allows it more knockback and makes it easier to use!

 

Avatar
Registered User shared this idea

28 Comments

Please sign in to leave a comment.

Sorted by oldest
  • 10
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Actually, I would prefer it if axes had the following damage values:

    Netherite Axe: 13.5

    Diamond Axe: 12

    Iron Axe: 10.5

    Stone Axe: 9

    But people tell me I'm just crazy because those values are way too high. But from playtesting they are very balanced. But diamond axes dealing 10 damage will at least make them used.

     

    Also, if you think this would make axes completely over-powered in pvp because of the extra damage and the shield disabling, I have two options:

    1. Axes could simply disable shields for 0.8 seconds instead. Or they could disable shields for 1.2 seconds, perhaps?
    2. Weapons could disable shields depending on how much damage is dealt. I have made a post on this already, and I think the system would work quite well.
  • 14
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    First off I would like to say that this would honestly be overpowered because not only of the damage buff, but with the current axe attacking speed being faster than before. Not to mention that the cleaving enchantment would increase its damage even more. I do agree though that the axe should deal more damage so how about this instead:

    Wooden/Gold: 6

    Stone: 7

    Iron: 8

    Diamond: 8

    Netherite: 9

  • 4
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Yea Jeb buffed cleaving to buff late game axes but for real swords are always better in my testing in pvp AND pve. Imo swords should be nerfed and axes should deal more knckback

  • 2
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Blast Burner, I am not entirely disagreeing with you but I'm rather confused by one thing you've said:"...not only because of the damage buff, but with the current axe attacking speed being faster than before." Yes, the in the combat tests, they have doubled the speed of axes. But they have also doubled the speed of swords... Compare a netherite axe dealing 9 damage to a netherite sword doing 7 damage, you have 18 DPS to 21 DPS. I, personally, will never use an axe in pve while it has lower DPS and reach than a sword. I think the less reach a weapon has, the more DPS it should have.

    If my values were put in place, then:

    Netherite Axe: 11 + Cleaving 3: 4 = 15 damage = 30 DPS

    Netherite Sword: 7 + Sharpness 5: 3 = 10 damage = 30 DPS

    This actually means that fully enchanted, swords are better. So cleaving buffs will not be a problem.

     

    And yes, Stoo3618, I definitely agree that axes should deal more knockback. Actually, what am I doing, I'm going to make a post on that now!

  • 3
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Reach is too huge of a factor, so I agree the DPS could be equal or even higher than swords. And let's not forget the attack speed.

     

    If Diamond swords deal 6 damage and have an attack speed of 3 (18 DPS)

    A Diamond Axe, which has an attack speed of 2, should deal 9 damage (18 DPS)

     

    They would have the same DPS, but at the end of the day, swords reach and attack speed will make them still more convenient than axes.

  • 4
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    All I'm saying is if axes get too beefy they will be too overpowered but if there's a way for axes to deal more damage than swords in a balanced fashion then I'm okay with that. Saying a netherite axe that deals 13.5 without any enchants plus boosted speed sounds op. That's just my opinion.

  • 2
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Yes, diamond axes need to do at least 9 damage. The reason I said that diamond axes should deal 10 damage is so that netherite axes aren't underpowered. Because if netherite axes deal 10 damage, they have 1 less DPS than netherite swords.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    I think pickaxe speed should slightly decrease to match axes, otherwise pickaxes would always be better. The reach of pickaxes should also decrease to 2.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Pickaxes speed decreasing is another topic for another time.

  • 6
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Swords must always be the best choice for combat. They are the primary weapon. What is their purpose otherwise? I agree that axes should have a special purpose for combat, but only as a secondary weapons that the player may want to use occasionally.

  • 2
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    If the speed of axes is raised, they would be far better than swords. More damage per hit should be their trade off, and they still should deal less damage per second than sword. That might make axes better for critical or one a time attacks, making them quite secondary.

  • 3
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Ziad El-Moursey, why must swords always be the best choice for combat? Personally, I think there should be many weapons, all of them equal but different. However, if you are concerned that buffing the diamond axe to deal 10 damage is too much, trust me, it's not. It has more DPS than the sword, yes, but significantly less reach. Reach is a massive factor in both PvP and PvE. As a matter of fact, from playtesting, I found that a diamond axe dealing 12 damage was just as good as a diamond sword in PvE.

    I have no idea where you get the idea of raising axe speed, because I have not seen a single person suggest that anywhere. The whole point of axes is that they have less reach, less speed, and more damage. If axes had more DPS than swords, they would still have less reach, so it is still balanced in the end.

     

    (I just saw a comment by Blast Burner that I didn't answer. Yes, many people do think 13.5 damage is insane for a netherite axe, and it kind of is seeing you can one-shot kill a zombie with a critical hit. But, I found it balanced compared to netherite swords. I have, however, suggested in the post 11 damage, which I still think is too low...)

  • 3
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Retropiglin, did you just say "axes deal 1 more damage than swords, this is already strong"??? 1 more damage is nothing in comparison! You say that axes should be good just because they deal more damage with 1 hit and not be useful for multiple hits? Well, in pvp someone with a sword can easily hit you twice before you can hit them once! And I've tested Pureawsome334's suggestion, it does not go horribly wrong but goes very right! The reach and speed advantage of the sword is good enough without doing almost the same amount of damage!

    I think Pureawsome334's point with the zombified piglin example is that the axe isn't a viable option in most scenarios. Most players will have a sword, but axes should work just as well.

    And half a block less reach is a massive difference in combat. Like seriously, have you tried using an axe in the combat tests?

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Axes are worse than that, now swords are very good against shields since shield's rework.  I've been on a server that has done custom weapons to rebalance, and to make them usable, we had to nerf swords to 2.5 attack speed and axes to 2.75 range. Netherite pickaxes have more dps than iron sowrds.

  • 0
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    You dont hit every hit in a fight so an axe would give you an advantage if you are bad at aiming. Also axe crits do much more damage.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    i'd disagree. In this system, missing is so little punished that spamming around will get you a hit so easy. Then, if we still count that, we have axes, which are slower after hits, making it harder for hitting, and swords, which can hit you multiple times fast. If a sword hits you multiple times you're not just recieving damage, you're getting comboed and basically you can't hit then. Then, the axes also have less reach, how's an axe better if you miss?

  • 2
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    This post was very very stupid. If pickaxes do more knockback then it would make it a worse weapon because knockback stops you from killing the mob faster. The axe is meant to chop down wood they only added higher dmg to the axe because if they were to stun shields they needed it to be a fair dps.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    In pve, axe was never supposed to be a weapon.
    In pvp, axe is objectively better once players wear armor. In iron armor, an Iron axe kills a full iron armor in under 4.2 seconds. In diamond, it takes exactly 4 seconds to kill a full diamond player. With swords, it takes 5 seconds to kill an iron armor player and over 7 seconds to kill a full diamond player. If you watch good papers in 1.16, they will never use swords.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    I totally agree with this. I feel that if axes were given more DPS, even just a small 1-5, it would be so much better and offer more style to Minecraft weapon options since currently only weapon really used is sword and every now and then maybe a hoe or pick.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    PureAwsome, I still think that adding +1 more damage point to axes is the buff that they need, maybe even +1.5, but then again I'm not a serious pvper so I wouldn't know how serious this would effect pvp. Hopefully we get the axe damage buff that we are all looking for.

  • 2
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    The axe isn't supposed to be a crowd control weapon.

  • 2
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    First of all what kind of weapon is/was used irl?
    Swords and sometimes axes not hoes or pickaxes so why are pickaxes and hoes better than axes.
    Second in these snapshots the devs tried to add multiple ways of combat which are all good so there shouldn't be some kind of primary weapon 

    Edit: If you think axes would get overpowered the suggestion that swords should block again would maybe balance it out

     

     

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    I disagree, and I exclusively use axes in PvE. Now I agree that axes are slightly underpowered in PvE, but your suggested changes would add too much.

    As it stands, I prefer axes over swords against monsters because it's one less inventory slot filled, and for farming animals because it only hits one target. I also just like its precision, and my strategy centers around hit-and-run tactics with as many jump-crits as possible. Most players I think are just way more used to swords, which also have a shallower learning curve.

    I think the 9 damage across all axes is a relic from back when sharpness added 1.25 damage per level. A sharpness 5 axe would jump-crit for 19.75 damage. Any higher and it one-shots most enemies. But now sharpness 5 only adds 3 damage so the jump-crit is just 16.5. So I think the diamond axe could go to 10 damage. But I think it'd also make sense to increase the gains from sharpness on axes to 1 per level, or at least 0.75 per level. And keep in mind I am not suggesting an increase to their DPS! Axes should have lower DPS than swords because their higher hit damage penetrates armor. On hard difficulty monsters frequently have armor, though the penetration is more important in PvP. Maybe what we really need is some monsters with more armor!

    I also love smite axe. it IS a great weapon to use against zombie pigmen, even after they are angered! But if you kill them in one hit, they don't get angry! I get plenty of cheap gold with my smite axe!

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    If each axe did 4 more damage than the sword you end up with 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, and 11 attack damage. With sword nerf maybe each axe doing 2 more damage would work. Then you would have 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9. One thing I would suggest is that wood and gold swords are nerfed down to 3 attack damage, which would mean the axes would do 5 damage.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    I use an axe

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    maybe axe do a bigger damage but have cooldown unlike the sword(in fact it may sightly higher), which still have no cooldown. this encourage people to use axe than quickly swap to sword when its cooldowning

  • 0
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    Java combat is seriously stuffed up. It only makes sense for axes to deal less damage than swords because they are first and foremost a tool. If axes were o deal more damage then swords would become completely obsolete. While I do respect Mojang’s decision in 1.9 with attack cool-downs, changing axe and sword damage values was just idiotic.

  • 1
    Registered User commented
    Comment actions Permalink

    nice idea