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Add option for legacy combat (1.8 and below)

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    I personally would prefer Minecraft does not go back to the days of "whoever clicks the fastest wins" since this could always be duped with a simple auto clicker and there's nothing fair about that.
    This is without mentioning that there are Gaming Mouses that come with a button that allows you to automatically spray clicks and with old Minecraft combat this could be really abusive, I should know I bought one of these Mouses recently.

    Overall I just find the clicking combat to be a very lame, boring and tedious combat mechanic, it was because of this that I never bothered much with PVP in Minecraft in pre Combat update and I cannot understand the appeal at all.

    However let me offer an idea that I'm sure everyone could be happy with.

    Add in Daggers. These weapons can have the same click speed as the old combat, click as fast as you want, however if you attempt to attack a player with his shield up this will stun you from using your dagger momentarily, your dagger will also take bonus damage from this.

    To make up for this counter the dagger could offer a plus, the more hits you land on your opponent will make the dagger's damage scale up to Axe levels of damage, making this a deadly tool in the proper hands. Missing the target or hitting a shield will break the combo.

    Daggers cannot have knock-back, this is so players don't go nuts on mobs like zombies and automatically demolish hordes without any problem, without knock-back Dagger users would be on their toes, constantly moving away from the opponent but staying close enough to land their hits.

    Furthermore there could be a Reach Enchantment that makes it so that Daggers can have the same reach as Swords and just for fun you can add a Bleed Enchantment that causes a poison-like effect on the opponent once he is hit.

    Also if you use a dagger you can't use a shield with it but you can use the old Block mechanic Swords used to have.

    This way those like myself who enjoy the new combat can keep it and those who prefer the old one can have an alternative.

    Everyone is happy.

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    Yes, I think this should be implemented sometime in the near future. I think that the 1.9 Combat Update is on the list of some of the games least popular updates, because of the major alterations made to the games combat system. Although I believe that some newer features should stay, such as the Shield replacing the old (and very broken) block hitting mechanics. 

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    completely agree, in my opinion the new combat system killed minecraft, I know that obviously there will be people that like the new system, but I think a majority of the playerbase prefers the old. All of the popular servers know this, and are therefore stuck in 1.8 to keep their business running. simply adding the option for legacy combat would "revive" the game to it's former glory. 1.13 and 1.14 are both fantastic updates that have brought back a lot of people, but honestly I think just giving the option for legacy combat would bring back more than both those updates did combined. please Mojang just listen, it can't hurt to give us an option between both styles of combat.

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    I agree! I think it would give players more freedom with using the new features without to be bound to the combat update. Maybe you can make the mobs more difficult when you use the old combat. (Faster zombies, more HP, etc...)

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    merely removing an imaginary cooldown would be very helpful. You can still have the delay in attack if the devs really want it, but don’t make it so that spam clicking lowers damage.

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    I just want to chime in on the whole "toggle" option.

    A gamerule would be great but it could get annoying having to constantly change it on every world. I propose a setting in the options menu (as well as the /gamerule) that basically allows you to set whatever you prefer as 'default' so it persists across every world until changed. 

    If worse comes to worst then the idea of /gamerule or a toggle could be ignored and the combat system stored on a per-world basis and changed prior to generation where cheats/starter chest/seed/etc is located. This might even be easier to code since it could be stored in the save file of a world rather than client-side.

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    The PMDMCG commented

    Disagree. First there will be two playerbases when there intentionally is only supposed to be one (i.e. thats not what Minecraft is supposed to offer. Minecraft isn't YouTube or Mario Maker where there's lets say the content creators and the players.). And if Mojang implemented that it would tell the community that being complainant about any updates will result in a gamerule, making updates twice as long. 

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    This would allow for servers to FINALLY get out of the 1.7/1.8 hole. It would require a lot of work, but this could easily get me and many others to leave 1.8 for good. Solid suggestion!

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    As a response to The PMDMC:

    The community is already split. This would at least allow the PVP community to move away from 1.7/1.8 and on to versions released in the past 5/6 years, and increase the amount of servers that everyone is able to visit.

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    Insane96MCP commented

    I disagree, the old combat was just stupid spam and should never come back

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    ZyndixYeet commented

    I feel like honestly java 1.9+ combat is better but this is a great idea since apparently so much people don’t for some reason

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    CoolToast 77 commented

    I think a great way to have both the new and legacy combat would be to allow players to enchant swords with sweeping edge in order to have the new combat, this would mean swords that do not have sweeping edge would remain the old style of combat. That way players who enjoy one or the other can still use them both. 

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    Trenix90 commented

    I disagree, this is why you can play previous versions and have mods. As the game moves forward we shouldn't be moving backwards. The combat system is also still the same, just the person who times their attacks will do more damage, as they should. It's just a waste of time on the developers part.

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    The new combat system is better. it adds more skill to combat and gives you more options instead of who can click faster.

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    DCTrain commented

    Ya, This new Combat Sucks. Its one of the Few reasons I prefer Bedrock Edition over Java Edition

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    Lucian Zachos commented

    I disagree. I dont think that this would be a good idea, especially on servers. On a server, it would fundamentally change combat, resulting in unfairness.

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    Cqllel commented

    IDRC about the old combat much. I like the new one so much more. I just wish they could do more with it. But either way, it gives more depth to the game than the old combat. I don't like basic bch gameplay when I'm fighting. Gets pretty old

    When 1.9 came out, I was hoping for new move sets for combat. Like strafe dash or use of bashing enemies with a shield when you sprint while blocking. And more than just a single swipe for a sword attack. I love that the axes have use for combat now and require a different approach to how you fight

    Since 1.9, Minecraft player base has been split up. The kids who stuck to 1.8 and refuse to update, are stuck on PvP servers. And the rest of the world has moved on with life and get so much more content and depth. That's literally how it is. I go back into 1.8 sometimes just to see what people even do in it or why they're still there just to realize how much of Try-Hards they are and how toxic it can get. It's like a completely different game! Also, you can't play or PvP on servers without mods anymore. If you don't got mods, you don't stand a chance. Toggle sprints, UI mod stuff, and their texture packs, etc. In new combat, you don't need to constantly click. Or position your hand on your mouse in weird ways just to click faster. Or use texture packs. It's actually easier to fight when you don't sprint

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    It seems a new combat snapshot has come out, perhaps this thread had some hand in the new mechanics? What do people think of it? Dose it replace the need for the legacy Combat toggle?

    Edit: snapshot here https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/c5mqwv/a_custom_java_edition_snapshot_to_test_new_combat/

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    ZeroEpoch1969 commented

    I mean, it's not hard to make this a gamerule.

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    ScripScraps commented

    I miss the legacy combat. I find a lot a joy constantly hammering my foes and even my foes doing the same. I never found any excitement from the newer style of combat and most of my friend just stick with older versions of the game just because of the combat. we all find it a bit boring and is a lot harder to handle when facing a lot of zombies or skeletons or other mobs. peaceful mobs become a lot harder to kill as they scamper off as your attack is charging making it a wild goose chase. here is my attempt on not just writing "I agree" I hope if you guys find it helpful.

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    IMO this will be bad if only 1.8 PvP would be available, I prefer the new combat style

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    well,the new system was the reason for a lot of servers to die(pretty good ones) and made some people that were pretty good(some of the youtubers and streamers ofc) to quit. I think that the newer combat system (the 1.9 one) needs less skill and the shield if far too easily abused(holding down the right click and blocking literally everything...there should be some kind of chance for the attacks to penetrate trough the shield with decreased dmg, which would give an option for enchantment that would decrease the chance). This is at least my opinion

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    The PMDMCG commented

    FrozenPicklesYT

    Personally, I sorta like both combat systems (except maybe the combat test). Reason being I do see how Mojang have unintentionally applied a very intelligent situation within 1.8 PvP where you actually have to apply YOUR physical involvement in order to succeed (i.e. spam-clicking). Many other indie games I have seen have a stamina bar to determine how long you can run, but you as a player don't feel tired... you know what I'm saying? I do see many flaws in 1.9 PvP and Minecraft as a whole. PvP should involve more strategy and should have fights both fast and slow paced alike. Adding more movesets could solve the problem. Some people have suggested to add weapons that spam clicks. That is a good idea but that alone cannot happen because that isn't how new weapons are meant to work. It's supposed to add another way of tactic into the game, instead of satisfying some of our wanted gameplay. We need a way to expand each aspect and game mechanic of Minecraft.

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    iStrayfe commented

    Adding a gamerule or API for servers would be a great addition because this would then create a better balance for the community in which 1.8 players can finally play with the new blocks and new mechanics (such as Water Mechanics, new crafting, etc) on servers which support 1.8 Legacy PVP, so no comprises. This is what needs to be done.

    If you change the pvp mechanics, the people who do actually like the 1.9+ pvp will be disappointed and possibly not play.
    HOWEVER
    If you don’t make it possible for 1.8 players to pvp the way they want, then server owners like Hypixel will have to have to continue to make their servers compatible with all the versions, which, very soon, will completely get out of hand. The majority of servers use 1.8 still because of one feature you guys have changed which could EASILY be fixed if you add a gamerule or API to disable 1.9+ pvp. It works out best for everyone.